Thursday, May 7, 2009

Class 4: designing exertion games

Today you've learned about the process of designing exertion games, and the themes

  • social
  • emotion
  • mind-body loop
  • mind body conflict?
  • performance
when it comes to designing for the body. These themes should help you in creating your project, and they should also help you in arguing why your game is any good!

(This differentiates you from those clever 14 year-olds: they might also create a great game, but they cannot argue why it is any good, and hence cannot tell their future employees how to make another great game. By understanding why your game is great, you will be able to do it again!)

Homework:

Prepare for "Projects Madness": 1 min presentation + 2 min feedback from class
Use today’s design knowledge in your project
Enter your blog comment (and don't forget to comment on today's presentation styles!)

Homework for Pranee: reply to Ian Bogost

Comment to Michele's comment on the brain-interface:

Think about the theme "mind-body loop" when designing exertion games: what does it mean to design for the mind-body loop? Focusing on the brain alone does not seem to be the best approach with that in mind. (I understand for some it might be the only way to communicate, so there is a space for that). But do you think you can create better games if you would have such an interface?

Further thought: Anton Nijholt (NL) has done experiments where he measured brain activity: he asked people to IMAGINE moving a box: the brain activity in certain parts was X volts. Then he asked the same people to imagine moving a box WHILE moving their hands as if they are moving a box. The brain activity was >X Volts.

The question for us is not WHY?, but WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR YOUR GAME DESIGN?

Can you see that this is what Guitar Hero does? It does not only make you THINK (see imagining moving the box) you are a rockstar by putting up all the graphics & sound etc, it ALSO strengthens these emotions that make you think you are a rockstar by encouraging you to do the associated MOVEMENTS: they give you a guitar, so you stand like a rockstar, but they also reward tilting it upwards in the gameplay (even though it does not add anything the way you play (regular) guitar), making it a much more emotional game (through imagining fantasy play) than if they would have just giving you the buttons and the strum bar.

Comments appreciated on what does this mean for YOUR game.

69 comments:

  1. Hello, trevor here.

    I thought the topics today were very interesting. Particularly the issue of Exergaming versus Real life sport/exercise. I'm not too sure about the whole exergaming encourages people to goto the gym, or join a sports club, infact i think it's a load of bull. I like playing wii sports boxing and tennis, but I've NEVER had the sudden urge (or encouragment) to go do the same thing in real life. I think exergames that are on the wii, are not made because people are fat, but to tap into the casual gaming market. Who are into fad games, that are made out to be good exercise. HOWEVER, i will concede that the sort of games are very good for the elderly, as it does get them active, and it's rather easy to learn (look at George Negus on the new channel ten quiz show. The tv remote he was using was actually a wiimote in a box, which also links this to last weeks guest lecture).
    Anyway here a couple of reports which i thought were related to the first presentation, nothing that indepth, but gives the general gist of the whatever, does anybody read these thing anyway?
    The Physicality Of Gaming - http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/default.htm?pres=20080317_2100&story=5
    Older Gamers - http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/default.htm?pres=20071030_2030&story=5

    And this is what i was trying to get at during Floyd's segment when that 'Weightlifting game for weightlifters', was being discussed. Plus something on an 'army game for the army'
    Games In Physical Activity - http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/default.htm?pres=20080512_2100&story=5
    The Game The Army Plays - http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/default.htm?pres=20080324_2100&story=7

    And the final segment, which i'll keep short. I thought it was interesting, and it brought to light how nintendo is actually reusing past (mostly failed) products for their "REVOLUTIONARY" gaming platform.
    If the above is true (which it is), will we see the return of the MIGHTY Power Glove?

    well that's all from me, sorry 'bout all the text.

    ReplyDelete
  2. so now i guess you all know.

    yes, yes i am socially retarded.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Heya,,

    I can't really comment on my own presentation so I thought I'd talk about the ideas that Floyd was showing us.

    I wanted to once again go on the topic of different styles of games and different ways of looking at them. The one with the pets really got my attention. Mainly because my dog is annoying and has way too much energy as he hardly ever uses it. I think it would probably be a marketable gaming idea, but it would have to be cheap in order for regular people such as myself to even think about buying one.
    I was thinking for dogs you could maybe set up those special dog whistles to go off in different parts of your backyard. Once your dog gets close to one another one in the different direction goes off. This could either be fun for your dog or just make it go crazy haha

    I don't know if that's really commenting on the lecture or just pitching a game idea.. either way, I tried. haha.

    P.S. Antu's comment about Games being a degree now.
    LOL!
    But when you think about it seriously.
    How many good games have come out recently?!
    HARDLY ANY!
    That's why they have to teach people how to make them now. =P

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hey, i just finished my programing assignment wohoo, so i can get some much needed sleep.

    Before i forget tough, Michele mentioned the euphoria brain scanner and its use as an interface for people with quadriplegia. There is another company that have done this called Emotiv Systems. Their website is

    http://emotiv.com/

    and heres a youtube demo.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxMux4uEkLI&feature=PlayList&p=0035D51E18CB70C6&index=0

    Hope this helps.

    On the topic of games for pets. Dogs play with you and can run around the yard, unlike an aquarium dwelling octopus.

    An octopus is a fairly intelligent animal and can figure out how to escape the aquarium if it gets bored, sadly in many cases it is unable to get back in and dies. Mental stimulation is usually provided via live food witch allows it to use its natural hunting instincts, although sometimes this isn't enough and other pass times are required, such as this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEgLXnZFAM

    I have also seen a video, where live food was placed inside a transparent hollow ball and the octopus had to figure out how to open it in order to get to its food. This could be seen as a game, as there is a challenge (opening the ball) followed by a reward (food).

    good night y'all

    ReplyDelete
  5. Emotiv is a company formed by Tan Le, former young Australian of the Year, and former Monash student, from Melbourne, but now living in the US. She was also at the FDG conference. If you want to get in touch with her, you can just refer to me again and the conference.
    Floyd

    ReplyDelete
  6. hey guys rory here woo..yeah....another good lecture , i especially like the way floyd uses questions to open up our minds .....do dogs play and such.. i thought the group presentations were good but i didnt see the point to the seond after seeing the first, sorry guys im not sure what it was meant to be about cause i didnt read that chapter from the persuasive games book...maybe that should have been discussed...anyway thats what i think .

    ReplyDelete
  7. Floyds Lecture
    I enjoyed the lecture today, specifically Floyd's presentation on designing for exertion or physical games. The idea presented that these types of games require a different approach to design and an understanding of more than just game elements, but also how the mind and the body work together, and sometimes what I understand, as working separately to each other. This can be demonstrated in Floyd's examples of the reaction to the hot plate versus the reaction to the light.
    Trying to find more information on the mind controlling body or body controlling itself or the mind, or rather, the mind not being the omniscient center of our bodily functions is proving hard. But I did find this great article: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/325/7378/1433 which you will probably have to sign up to read.
    It is an article about the mind not being just the physical or bio-chemical actions that take place within our body, but it is what is outside of our body that contributes to how we should understand the mind. The environment it is operating in. The example it shows is understanding the genius of one of Picasso’s works is not in the paint and canvas itself, but the relation between what he created and the world at the time, historical, political, cultural and personal states.
    I guess where I am leading with this, is that, whilst searching for more information on the body-mind relationships in terms of actions and sensations, I came across this article which I believe touches on Floyd’s proposal of designing for physical games, or indeed any game. Designers must not focus solely on the game, game mechanics, cool graphics or even what great physical action or exertion interactivity you have blended into your game. There is a whole gamut of factors one can consider when in the design cycle.
    What other physical games have there been? What types of interfaces? What types of physical games are people playing today? What type of physical activities are people doing today (Non video-game)? Do people enjoy performing physical actions in front of other people? Antu’s comments on playing DDR in front of ‘elite’ gamers at the arcade was that it was intimidating and self-esteem is an issue in physical games. Floyd’s questions, do dog’s play? There is so much to consider, I haven’t even barely scraped the surface of how the individual or ‘social mind’ is affected/effected by it’s environment. I think this would be well worth further investigation.
    I shall move on before I write an essay.
    The idea of play vs game. You will learn about this in media cultures where you will be asked to consider the definitions of play, and game. Is one different from the other? According to the dictionary, play can be; something done for amusement, the playing of a game, have fun, or to pretend for fun. Games are said to be a form of play with rules, but play has rules as well, for example, when you are playing ‘doctors and nurses’ as a kid, the rule is that you pretend to be the doctor or nurse, or patient, and to break these rules is to end the play. Another verdict is that game has a result, where as play does not.
    Does this mean that all ‘games’ must have rules? Maybe the term video game is too broad for what you may buy on the shelf at your favourite retailer. My point being, if you were to make a ‘game’ for a dog as Floyd suggested as a means of expanding our scope for ‘game’ development, the dog may not understand that the interaction has a result, or rules. Sure dogs can be trained to be obedient, but can they teach themselves to follow a set of rules? So maybe you wouldn’t develop a ‘game’ for a dog, but you could develop a form of play, involving physical inputs with visual or aural responses. Not necessarily a big screen TV and fancy 1080p mind blowing graphics, it could be coloured lights, sounds, or a tennis ball launcher triggered by some event. Maybe these sorts of ‘games’ would not be games, but something like ‘video-play’, or ‘exerplay’. Game and play have different meanings, and maybe the industry being the ‘game’ industry doesn’t focus enough on ‘play’.
    @Trevor, you’re are indeed entitled to your opinion of whether or not exergaming encourages people to go to the gym. I guess the main point of our ‘research’ was to show that the benefits of exergaming, mainly for kids as this is who the study was done on, are also psychological, not just physical, and increase the players self-esteem, and confidence, affording them to have the courage to go and try these new things. Maybe if Antu had DDR at his school, he would be more comfortable playing it with hardcore DDR players at the arcade, because he has done so in a ‘safe’ environment. (I don’t mean to pick on Antu, but he made great points). The studies do show psychological improvements in self-esteem, and children reported more enthusiasm for sports, fitness, dance and PE classes then before DDR type (In the groove) programs.

    I might have had more to say, but I should stop now.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Fellow class folk (:
    I find my self slightly confused and somewhat frustrated during presentations as one person will say something like,, "there have been cases where people have actually lost weight from playing wii",,and somone will put there hand up and say,, "so what your trying to say is the wii was desgined for people who want to lose weight?",, then we have this whole debate over whether the wii was designed for fat people to get fit. I'm pretty sure if thats what they were trying to promote they would have advertised it as wii weight loss program. Its just another game that was put out there to entertain and let its audience have fun.(In my opinion) An individual who plays any exergame can perceive it however they like, whether its "I'm going to stand on this thingymabob and dance my heart out because i like to dance" (: or "I'm going to do it because it might help me with my dance moves", or "I'm going to play guitar hero and pretend I'm a rockstar because I'm not musically talented at all but one can pretend" orrrrr "I'm going to play dodgeball with fred because it will be hell funny" or "yeah I'm fat and it might make me lose some weight."

    people were saying or insinuating that other people were trying to say that when games were made they made people obese so now they want to try and get the fat kids active.. thats bullshit.
    exergames were around long ago plus how many people in this course play video games?? how many of you are obese?? NONE.. but if thats obvious to you then why argue about it, I love the class discussions and hearing everyones opinions but when someone is giving a presentation and they mention something that you dont agree with give them a chance to finish. We spend so much time during presentations arguing about what the wii was desgined for because people in the audience interrupt the presenters midsentence not giving them the chance to get their point out. Fair enough you have an opinion too but it's not your presentation,and its not fair on the presenters when the audience attacks them. hear what the speaker has to say. Think about it then raise you hand and speak when chosen to speak. goshhhhh you're a savage bunch (: If anyone interrupts me when i speak for my group or cuts in on another audince member speaking I'll kick you in the mouth (:
    Love you all (:(:

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hello, its Nicholas Lim here.

    Concerning the Wii's "role" in losing weight:

    I too, doubt that the Wii was originally created or even intended for use as an alternative weight loss program as said by a few people in the lecture yesterday, and also by Amanda Bailey.

    I personally beleive that weight loss through the use of the Wii is a SIDE EFFECT (albeit being a somewhat unexpected side effect).

    Like other consoles, it was meant for PLAYING VIDEO GAMES. Sure, it mimics actual exercise or sports moves in certain games, but this is simply the way of using the Wii's input devices. Sure, the moves you make when playing can be done half-heartedly, or you can do it like you would do it in real life. Obviously the amount of calories burnt as a result of moving your body while playing the Wii is a direct result of your movement intensity.

    In any case, the Wii was made as a different way of playing your video games, and surely its main feature wasn't for use as a means of weight loss. the Wii is just another different and FUN way to play video games, I feel.

    Concerning the insane amount of questions asked DURING the presentations:

    I also feel that it's quite unfair for the presenters to be stopped mid-presentation due to the questions asked. These questions should really be reserved for the end of the presenation, when the presenters have said all they have intended to say. Surely any uncertainties or unclear bits will be clarified once they're done speaking. Therefore, I propose that most of us ask only at the end of a presentation!

    That's my opinion for now.

    Nicholas Lim Chong Hock
    S3186372

    ReplyDelete
  10. @Amanda!!!!! THANK YOU!!! for the great post! :)

    Please start kicking peoples faces in, we'd all like to see that I think. That could also be a good exergame, "Lecture Room Rampage!" :P

    (Please note the smilie, indicating sarcasm, I don't want to be held accountable as an accomplice for damaged faces, but do agree with your points)

    Your comments about audience members jumping in on one point before someone finishes their sentence is a very valid one.

    A quick primary example, people jumping in to let me know that Australia is indeed 'the fattest nation' AFTER I'd stated that the statistics I was showing were from 2002/2003 and BEFORE I'd moved on to the next segment and talked about how we are getting fatter and now outrank the USA in the fat steaks (sic).

    @Everyone, has anyone been to one of the lectures Floyd has invited us too? I hope not, for Floyd's sake, as we, I say we as the representation of our class that may go to one of these lectures, very well could just end up launching into a long winded attack on a notable lecturer, and prove the old saying, "It's better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are stupid, then to open it and remove any doubt". Or worse, downright offend them, and Floyd!

    I feel that we all must be reminded we are students, not lecturers. If we knew more than, or better than the lecturers, we wouldn't be here studying.

    So can we please have a little more respect for both fellow students and lecturers?

    I'll regret posting this won't I?

    ReplyDelete
  11. The liked the idea that was raised by Michele of using your mind to play a game and asking yourself "is it considered a physical game?"

    It was quite clever and at first i thought both the "mind and body" was needed.

    After thinking about it i do have second thoughts. . . but if i had to give an answer i would say "for a game to be considered physical it needs to have a visual representation that can then be recreated in the game" if that makes sense. . .

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hi all,

    First off I wanna talk about some things that other people have commented on this week.

    Trevor mentioned George Negus using a Wiimote on TV, I happened to watch the show and it did strike my attention that although he said he'd not used one before and didn't know how to, it was very intuitive and took to it very quickly. As a Wii hater, it's hard for me to say this, but I do like the fact that Nintendo have opened up gaming to the casual audience. It gives us a wider audience as designers and artists, and encourages us to design for people other than ourselves which I think is important, no matter what line of work you're in.

    Rob, thanks for posting up that link about the connection or disconnection between mind and body. Understandably anything I can say on the matter is all subjective and none of it can be scientifically backed (I don't know about my classmates, but I personally don't have a PhD yet...). I would assume however that the body, being the main receptor for external factors would have to have certain shortcuts to the brain which make certain reactions possible without conscious action; eg. removing your hand from a hotplate. You don't think "oh gees, that's hot, I'd better move my hand" your body just does it for you. Although this doesn't relate exactly to video games without some deep consideration, we can use it to think about what kind of interactions we want our audience to have with the game and how natural and instictive we should make them. I know that personally, I prefer a game where I don't have to think about what I'm doing with the controller and I think this is a really important aspect to consider when designing games.

    I suppose the main item I wanted to discuss was the inclusion of exergaming as a way of getting kids into fitness. My main question about that got a little confused in the discussion, probably because I wasn't 100% clear that I was referring entirely to cases where exergaming is used in school. I find it hard to believe that this is a successful progressive use of technology because we're simply feeding our obsession. I suppose that in the end it's our fault for introducing technology to every possible aspect in our lives. I find it interesting though that we're using exergaming (which we all know is techno-based) to compete with a problem that was caused by technology
    in the first place. To alter a Simpson quote; "Gaming- the cause of, and solution to all of life's problems."

    I valued all of the now outdated technologies that both groups spoke about, however I think that although the topics of each group were clear, the contentions were muddled and uneasy to follow. Well done to both groups, however, on keeping the conversation interesting and the debate flowing.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Oh I'd also like to add that I don't believe that the technology that allowes quadraplegics (sp?) to use games based on radio frequency qualifies as physical gaming. The explanantion Floyd gave of it was that it was "intense physical" somethingerather, and I don't consider mental calculation to be intense physically. Sure, it's the most physicality they can experience, but that doesn't mean it's adequate to qualify as physical exertion.
    If this doesn't make sense I'll leave you with this example: my car is blue. I can say it's as red as that particular shade of blue could possibly be therefore it's red, but it's still not red.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Disclaimer:
    1) Presentation on Dance Games & Exergames... sorry about the lack of visuals (especially for the Pros & Cons) but by a misfortune, the fancy flash presentation we were going to have didn't work:) I did contribute images to the overall presentation... this was the reason for the back-up analogue part of my presentation... sorry folks.

    Also, by the time it was my turn to speak I was being rushed off the stage so couldn't conclude my points very succinctly...

    excuses, excuses, you say... yeah well!!!

    Other presentation, all good guys, cheers for that!

    re: questions??? (raised by Amanda), I think at the end is a good idea cos it is kinda stink when you lose your train of thought or get rushed along...hands up is okay cos then the person speaking can choose whether or not to acknowledge you...

    About the lecture,

    Thanks for the networking links Floyd, all possibly very useful in the future. I was contemplating applying for an internship with EA one day... but maybe in their Australian Branch, if at all possible. The conference sounds well worth checking out.

    The processes & themes to think about when designing a (good) game is useful food for thought. Having grown up with a Commodore 64 myself, hand written assignments, and Apple coming along in my senior years at school, I know I need an edge over those tech-savvy teens!!!

    ... and Ian Bogost's post, I have scoured the site over & over again, even tried to search his name but can not seem to find it. I will keep trying but could you please send me the link or post it? Cheers, I'd really appreciate that.


    finally, those links I said I'd post...
    For:
    Thousands of video lectures from the world's top scholars.
    http://academicearth.org/
    &

    http://www.youtube.com/edu

    Peace yo' all

    ReplyDelete
  15. Robert Shea,

    A great starting point to get into learning about the (complexity) of the new mind-body approach is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Mistook_His_Wife_for_a_Hat

    from Oliver Sacks. There is even a podcast with him somewhere on the web which is great.

    ReplyDelete
  16. @Pranee:

    I believe you have found Ian's post, as you replied, but here it is:
    http://gameslecture.blogspot.com/2009/04/class-2-exertion-games.html#comments

    You should copy your reply in an email to him, as I am not sure if he subscribed to the blog.

    Thanks,
    F

    ReplyDelete
  17. Scott Battye S3201290May 8, 2009 at 11:46 PM

    I think it was an interesting discussion; I picked up the part about ghost limbs and remembered having the TV on during an episode of RPA. The Doc was talking about bodily reactions to the loss of limbs through amputation and the reactions the body goes through. Because the movement of the limbs becomes 2nd nature to the brain as you age (aka not a lot of thought goes into it), once a limb or limbs are removed the brain needs to adjust to the limbs no longer being there.

    In a childs case the brains response is much faster because their brain hasn't fully developed to the limbs being there, therefore the recovery is much faster and there's less of the "itchyness" and reporting of pain as apposed to an adult losing a limb. I think there was an age range of somewhere in the range of ~1 to ~14 year olds recovering really quickly after an amputation because their brain is more aware that a change has occured.

    @ Robert, I think you will
    @ Mariah, the first example made more sense than the second; I might just need to re-read it though
    @ Tim, I can't say I agree, there's been a few good games that have come out recently; but I will admit the standard has been a lot lower.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Appropriation:

    I think this is a word that some of you might help:
    people appropriate technology to address their needs (even though the tech was not designed for that need)

    So if the Wii was NOT designed for weight loss, people still APPROPRIATED it for weight loss. There are lots of instances of tech being appropriated for different purposes than initially intended: mobile phones were not invented for social chitchat, SMS not for flirting, PCs not for gaming, microwaves not for experiments, .... but people appropriated these technologies for exactly these purposes.

    So there is often a difference in the INTENTION of the designer and the USAGE of the user. I am sure you can think of games where this applies, too.

    ReplyDelete
  19. May i just interrupt you guys and say, that DDR was actually developed with a mind set, for teens in Japan to lose weight, particularly females. Although Japan doesn't have a high obesity rate, in Japan, in the school, it is a BIG deal to have a good body form, and girls always struggle with this ( not that its different in the other parts of the world ). But of course this may not be the main aim of the game, but i read somewhere that it is 1 of the main concerns when designing the game. It is not a side effect on the western market side.

    DDR may also be for, like many said, because Japs share many accommodations i.e bathhouse, the majority go to arcades, and good players will gain groupies?

    @ Wii and exergaming, basically all i could think of and more are already expressed by others, all i have to add is : To me, i don't exactly feel exergaming is a specific genre on its own, games that have led to exergaming (eg. Guncon, bike thingy) were based on 1 concept, the input of the player, they wanted the player's input to associate more with the gameplay instead of mashing buttons. We think of exer games just because with Wii, the controls aren't specific enough with our movement, leading many designers to recycle old games, which MANY as in i feel 90% of Wii games having an action directly tied to sport, running etc, even in Wario ware.

    Lastly, about the mind-body loop, Floyd mentioned that some actions were impossible to have come from the brain, as the impulse would take too long. If that is saying our body or body parts respond to stimuli on their own, isn't that like a movie called "The Thing"? For me, it's just about developing a mind set, like learning martial arts or riding a bike, our body simply adapts the pose and stature. Besides, a game doesn't have to be an exer game to stimulate your body, while i play CoD or CS, sometimes i just hold down the trigger and spray, and get involved in the game, i more or less in my mind imagine like being rambo, i hit the Left Mouse Button real hard and such, my body would get a rush of adrenaline, and so forth. Hard to explain......

    By the way, many of the articles i read i have forgotten where they were. I know Floyd likes links and reference to other material but just too lazy, searched neuro reactions and got cyber sex..... So, some context might be a bit off from what the original text is.

    My two cents at game standards. Yes a whole lot lower, i mean , there used to be a whole lot of innovation in older games, i feel we as next gen game designers need to step up. I feel as if now games are developed through a formula, a player is given an object, or several ingame, then he controls it thoughout a virtual world, and all that are different from other games is the form of control and maybe certain extra gimmicks, like slow mo or some lame stuff.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Dangit, 2 minutes later than Floyd.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Floyd, thank you. I've been meaning to read that book for a long time. I will take this as the straw that broke the camels back and take a trip to the library!

    ReplyDelete
  22. I found the 3 podcasts on the brain-body loop, they are awesome when jogging:

    http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2006/05/05

    ReplyDelete
  23. LolitsLeigh...

    Another good thought provoking lecture, I found Floyd's talk pretty confronting as well as encouraging, some good things I needed to hear about the perspective we need to remember as game developers in Australia and what we’re up against. Also a lot of the things that we’re said after showing guitar hero as an example; it made me really think about my groups idea for a physical game from a new perspective and has really sparked my thinking in how to ‘complete’ the idea to have better balance and synergy between mind and body interaction as well as to be a bit more ambitious.
    About the first presentation, I was getting really annoyed at the kind of questions being asked by most people, they all seemed to be along the lines of “the Wii isn’t good enough to replace real sport” or “its not good enough to make fat people thin” as if the Wii has a responsibility to do this.

    1. The Wii was never made for that purpose, it was simply made to be the next game console to come out alongside the ps3 and xbox360 as their competitor; its main pitch being that it is ‘more fun’ and has a wacky new controller. Some people seem to believe that because some people and games, such as Wii-fit, are trying to use the Wii for weight loss purposes that it then befalls them the responsibility of handling the problem of childhood obesity. Exergames can just hope to help this problem and they aren’t claiming themselves to be a solution to anything, they are just there!

    2. Also people seemed to think that Wii sports is, in some devious way, trying to get people to stop playing normal sports and to play Wii instead, as if we now have to make a choice, as if we can’t have both or live exactly as we have ‘pre-wii’.

    3. We have completely detached ourselves from the consumer in saying “that not enough to MAKE a wii player go to the gym” or “that won’t MAKE them decide to play real sports” it seems we are starting to believe that the consumer has become a mindless zombie once they have bought an exergame and no longer have the ability to make their own choices. The consumers are still thinking humans before and after playing an exergame they are the same person who decided to make themselves fat in the first place, (childhood obesity is not a cold or a spreading virus; they didn’t just catch fat) if they are going to make the choice to do something about their own health then they can do that by themselves with OR without Nintendo Wii-fit telling them to. (don’t call me insensitive, I was a fat child)
    On another note, the game of guitar hero was never finished and I therefore reserve the right to claim that I still could have won…

    EXPLODING HIGH FIVE! =D
    -Leigh.

    ReplyDelete
  24. I have had a look at the emotiv epoc 'lite' sdk and it looks interesting, however it's currently beyond my programming skills.

    In the mean time I'm saving up money to buy n.i.a.

    I have read on forums that it takes a while to get used to and its a bit erratic in games, however my main interest is to use it as an interface for a robot arm or usb servo controller. From there the possibilities are endless. I notice there are allot of developments in getting information into the computer, but not nearly as much into getting getting physical feedback from the computer. Such as the robotic monkey arm:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxIgdOlT2cY


    At some point in time when i have some more experience under my belt it would be interesting to receive some feedback, so I'd like to grab Tan Lee's details for future reference, if possible.
    Thanks Floyd



    Also, on a semi-related note:
    Does anybody have a spare WIRELESS keyboard and receiver that they are willing to donate/sell me for a top secret project (physical game)?

    ReplyDelete
  25. The presentations on friday was good but quite similar to each other so it felt like revision - i like the movie clips and examples; it helps to keep us focusing on the presentations and also add more persuasion to the facts.

    I'm not a fan that plays wii games that involves alot of movements but i just believe, nintendo wants to take advantage of their new controller and get people more involved with it since it's wireless. Even though, it's not the same thing as real life, it allows people to try out this experience because they might never want to do it for real and feel more comfortable in their own homes. Perhaps some people don't have friends to go out and do these things too so i suppose some people are just embarrassed or shy... doesn't apply to everyone. Anyways in the end, it's just a game to play :P

    - Bao Di

    ReplyDelete
  26. From memory, I think it was just
    Tan AT emotiv dotcom
    or tan.le

    Cheers,
    F

    ReplyDelete
  27. I really enjoyed the physiological discussions regarding fear and reflex. I thought physical exertion was well defined in this lecture and I feel more secure about creation of my idea. I was also interested to see that the exergaming craze had begun 20 years earlier with peripherals like the joyboard, which uses similar gameplay to that of the wii balance board and wii fit (skiing).


    The balance between mind and body and how they work together was both interesting and perplexing. “The Hotplate” and the “Do Dogs Play” questions have been bouncing around in my mind since Thursday. Robert put forward a good point that perhaps dogs play rather than game (game vs play). This has some grounds, although rules to games can be implied by their actions. e.g throwing a ball to a dog is playing with it right? But there are implied rules to fetching a ball, such as returning the ball to the start point. If the dog fails to return the ball to the start point the game ends. If he returns the ball, he gets to play again. And at some point the dog gets a treat. Eventually the dog will understand that if he “wins” he gets treats. This is the same way that you understand that when you make a row of blocks in tetris, that row ill be erased, and you’ll win points.


    This lecture really widened my understanding of gaming and demographics. Making a physical game for blind people, bettering society, really encouraged/ inspired me. I wrote down 6 –7 game ideas during this lecture.

    The irony that people die of starvation every day, yet western societies need games to coax them through something the media has deemed “the obesity epidemic” is fairly pathetic. This was pointed out by the second group and really made me think. How pathetic is the need to develop software for people who eat too much and do too little.

    Regardless, I understand that obesity exists and requires attention. physicality directly affects weight loss and if you exert yourself you perspire and lose weight – This is incredibly convenient when designing an exergame and is the most obvious design route. I would however prefer to concentrate on creating a physical game for a market that, although does not directly benefit from the results of the physicality, can enjoy an enhanced process originally thought impossible due to their disability.

    Michele

    ReplyDelete
  28. I suppose that in the end it's our fault for introducing technology to every possible aspect in our lives. I find it interesting though that we're using exergaming (which we all know is techno-based) to compete with a problem that was caused by technology
    This is a point I found difficult during the lecture. Why the hate on technology? Technology is great. Perhaps you're using the word "technology" to mean "specific items of artificially created equipment", but surely technology is one of the definitions of humanity. Surely we're just animals without technology.

    I mean, language is a technology. Fire, wheels, clothes and such are pretty nifty. My diabetic friends enjoy being alive, my hetero lady friends enjoy not being pregnant, my librarian friends enjoy books, and to say that dependence on technology is a weakness supposes a idealised human, owning nothing and changing nothing. People don't work that way. We have the need to create built into our heads.

    And technology isn't good or bad. It has no moral element. It's how it's used by people in a society that gives it any meaning. If you want to blame anything, blame culture. But technology is the product of pre-existing social conditions, not the creator.

    Anyway.

    On the quadriplegia thing:
    Quadriplegics actually have to do a hell of a lot of physical rehabilitation to relearn physical tasks and maintain the working anatomy. Some of that involves gaming, catching balls and stuff. Depends on the level of injury, really. For a complete quadriplegic, that brain-game thing would definitely be an exertion game. I mean, it wouldn't be physical for us, but that doesn't mean it's not physical for other people.

    ReplyDelete
  29. The whole idea that elements of the mind and body "conflict" with each other is quite interesting. It hints that the bond between these two major parts of a person, which are thought to run in a very synchronised and entwined fashion, isn’t so definite. It took me a while, but after thinking about it a little more i can loosely comprehend this connection, however articulating an explanation and mustering an example is slightly too much for me right now- perhaps another time.
    Although mind and body functions CAN clash, it may not be related to the proposition that the mind and body are separate and that they act as individual components.
    I wasn’t surprised that the reflex and pain test with the hotplate revealed that the person acted faster when they could feel the heat, but wasn’t convinced that it was an accurate evaluation of the difference between mind and body.
    I still believe that everything (including messages) passes through the brain. To take any sort of action or to think in any way requires the brain; it IS our 'control centre' after all. However there is a difference from what we control consciously and what our body controls subconsciously. All messages still travel through the brain, but the messages we do not consciously perceive require no time for us to calculate an answer or construct a decision.
    Our mind is what we 'do' consciously - not only thinking or taking actions but assessing or understanding the information our senses take in. The information our senses pick up however, comes unconsciously through our body. We can feel solid surfaces or see shapes and forms but without processing the information through the brain we would not understand what the objects were. In the same way if I put my hand on a hotplate I would feel how hot it was, I do not need to know what it is or how it works, only that it is hot, so would react without the need to look first or decide to pull my hand away. While the mind deals with what the individual knows, the subconscious deals with factors and forces like instincts, or impulses that do not require a reason or understanding to operate or influence the individual.

    I wasn’t really attracted by the idea of ‘pet games’ though. The need for games is not relevant if there is some form of play, as far as we know, animals do not need the level of mental stimulation and satisfaction we need, only the physical action and exercise. So is it really worth producing games for pets?
    Just some questions I don’t really need an answer to: Is it only a game when the owner is present to somehow implement it? – would it simply be play without the owner because there is no one to enforce rules…. furthermore, without the owner(or some form of substitute) would a pet even play? – There would be no motivation, reward or reason to play without the owner.

    Oh and weightlifting games for weightlifters, probably a bad idea. I liked to use games as an escape, something to take my mind off… everything. If I were a weightlifter I wouldn’t want to come home from the gym and start all over again, in fact if I were to come home and want to train, why wouldn’t I stay at the gym? I realise that there are other uses, but ultimately everyone would want a little variety in their lives. Who’s to say that weightlifters don’t like other games? Would they be able to resist playing a game they liked for a game that the pretty much live?

    ReplyDelete
  30. Howdy lecturees!

    Everyone has such fantastically valid points! I actually find this brilliant source of articulated thought more useful than the in-class discussions. It’s wonderful to see blogs used for something truly intellectual.

    Anyway, on to classy stuff (stuff about class : P). I find a lot of what’s discussed in this class incredibly confronting. Personally, I’ve always been a highly imagination and captivation orientated gamer i.e. I found the games that stimulate your imagination and captivate you in a beautiful and complex world to be the most enjoyable. I think Daniel mentioned he uses games to escape, here here! Escapism all the way : P.

    I have never really considered exergames or other forms of games to a high degree as I’ve always seen them as a casual, kiddie sidenotes to the deeply involved games I’m so focused on. But it’s true; these games are fantastic because they expand the game-playing demographic and create a refreshing wave or innovation in the industry. It’s interesting to start thinking outside of my little game box.

    First of all, little question; Floyd mentioned that Guitar Hero was apparently more enjoyable (or at least more captivating) when the player started impersonating typical ‘rock star’ guitar movements during play. It got me wondering, are games physical when they force you to be physical, or are can they be considered ‘highly physical’ because they inspire and urge you to be physical. I mean, it’s all well and good for the Twilight Princess to use Wiimote movements for sword techniques, but when the player gets so used to these movements and reduces them down to tiny wrist flicks made from the comfort of their bed, is that much different from a typical pc game?

    I don’t think that question has been asked before; sorry if it has, I have the memory of a hyper-active rodent : D.

    Anyway, concerning the various uses for Wii games: I still stand my ground on the ‘games for animals’ area. There is absolutely no need for games for animals. The uses and gratifications theory of media interaction (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A770951) suggests that we all actively search out the media to fulfil certain needs. These needs include things like escape, surveillance and personal identity. You can argue all you want, but animals simply do not require these higher forms of intellectual gratification or, as Daniel so nicely put it, mental stimulation. A ball is enough to entertain them, sniffing another dog’s behind is enough for socialising and personal identity is about as important to them as the amount of artificial colours in their food. Many people have proposed games that could be used for animals, such as a laser dot for them to chase. All these ideas are great, but not for the same reasons. They’re great for the same reason frozen dinners are so popular – they’re simply a replacement for something that takes effort. Rather than play with our animals we would simply turn a machine on to play with them. Sure it’d be handy when we have to go work, uni etc., but in the end playing with the dog personally is what the dog wants. It doesn’t want to escape reality, it doesn’t have the intellectual capacity to even it wanted to, and flashy graphics and the possibility for less effort aren’t appealing to it at all. This was what I was trying to say in the lecture, to no avail : P.

    As for the mind body loop: it’s a very interesting concept, particularly when delving into perception and other such complex psychology. However, I still see the mind as having dominance over the body. Yes, our decisions are bypassed during instant reactions, but not because the body is overriding the mind. The mind simply realises the danger it is in and overrides the minds complex and time-consuming process of conscious thought, a process that could cause the body more harm in the long run. Many martial arts focus on overriding the override, in taking control of the body’s instincts and defeating them. They overcome that instinctual urge to place their hands in front of their face and close their eyes. I think that’s the reason slamming a button can be just as invigorating as kicking a ball, because we can take charge of our unconscious mind and convince it we really are kicking a ball. So in the end, mind over matter : ).

    Still, I see exactly what everyone’s trying to get at. We can’t work for just the mind, there’s a lot of potential for involving the body. I’m glad I’m being woken up to the wider world of gaming and it’s really good to see all these lecturers who put a lot of thought into innovation rather than standard procedure. Learning is fun! : D

    Jacob!!!!!!!! *cool special effects*

    ReplyDelete
  31. Lecture Room Rampage


    Maths & Physics class vs M.....err no one
    (g ")--o(>_<)

    ReplyDelete
  32. I can't remember anything from the lecture, unfortunately. I'll comment asap for this Thursday's lecture though ;)

    ReplyDelete
  33. Hey,
    First of all, that was my favourite lecture so far. Very thought-provoking, particularly Floyds examples of how the mind reacts differently depending on physical input. This is really relevant with today’s emphases on immersion. (Oh god I used the bad word D:)

    This comments going to be fairly uninspiring because I want to pretty much skip the issue of games designed as a tool for exercise/anything because my opinion on the matter is so vanilla; Games are definitely not yet as effective as proper training/exercise, however they act as a great entry level point. How can they be a bad thing? Also, games can’t be blamed for obesity, nor can technology. Mental illness, laziness or disability maybe. Until I’m shown a game that literally chains you up I’m not buying it. Sure, technology has eliminated the need to do things that used to keep us fit, but it hasn’t become any harder to make a decision to exercise.

    Anyway, This isn’t what I joined this course to discuss! Game design utilizing the mind body loop. I would love to see the next iteration of game consoles go further than just really precise motion control. We know that using physical motion (by that I mean proper movements replicating real life movements) creates a far more dramatic response in people, as per Floyds box example above. What I would love to see (or do myself!) is see this sort of response mixed in with say…a horror game. How far could we push a mind? Imagine having a game were you literally need to run from the zombies on a treadmill? Maybe all that fun you were having with left4dead wouldn’t be so fun anymore… especially if there was some sort of force feedback (I want to say pain but I can’t see people choosing to suffer) to indicate there was a zombie gnawing on your face.

    Or how about the joy of flying. Anyone remember Nights into Dreams on the Saturn? The experience would probably be enhanced tenfold if you had a fan blowing in your face, and you controlled by balancing your arms like aeroplane wings. Mixing emotions with physicality! That’s what I’m getting at. I think that if this is done properly then it’s going to be the next big thing. I just hope the people who make the decisions decide to go a bit further with the means of input next time.

    Actually that brings me to another point, game designers are pretty limited by the current control options offered by the major consoles. I know it’s realistically impossible to let every game designer craft their own controller… Guess we’ll just have to wait and see on this one. I guess we can only hope that more and more options become available with every generation as the tech improves. We are headed in the right direction.

    Haha wow, I don’t think I made one valid point in my entire comment. That’s kind of impressive when you think about it lol. Nobody else has this kind of ineptitude.
    John Gregg. (s3235198)

    ReplyDelete
  34. I do love all this discussion,
    But I do agree with Miss Amanda Bailey’s point – please don’t interrupt other people, please mind your maddles.

    I think our last lecture was too aggressive and all our discussion turned into an ugly debate. We should be more collaborative! Like the first lecture with Floyd where ideas where combined, evaluated and refined. (I also think some Chillaxatives wouldn’t go astray.)

    For example, Floyd suggested that maybe we could design a game for a pet and rather than the stern ‘yes’ or ‘no’ response that we saw, I think we should think more about How this could be done.
    What if you were working in the industry and were given a brief (or even received an assignment, now, at university) that asked you to design a game for a dog? If your response was ‘no’ than… maybe you’re in the wrong place? I believe as designers we should work collaboratively to work out How we could get it done rather that arguing about whether or not it should be done.

    I also find this kind of aggressive voicing of opinions a bit excluding. I’m not sure about anyone else, but this type of debating makes me less likely to join in the discussion.

    But, all this arguing may just be for the sake of arguing…
    It gets people talking, thus causing more class contribution, thus causing more pretty (and I suspect hypothetical) gold stars - and we all know what that means.

    Continuing on with the idea for a game for a pet or animal:
    I like Mr. Robert Shea’s comment that “maybe you wouldn’t develop a ‘game’ for a dog, but you could develop a form of play”. I think this is a really interesting way of looking at it.
    Also Mr. Vlad’s comment about octopuses (or is it octopi?) solving puzzles. I once watched a documentary in which these people made puzzles (aka ‘games’) and difficult shaped maze aquariums to keep an octopus entertained. They made it look as though even a human would enjoy it.

    But maybe it’s just because the animal’s reward is food. This makes me wonder, what is the reward for a human when they play video games? Some kind of emotional satisfaction? You tell me.

    To finish up, I think you are all too smart and I don’t like dodgeball. Sorry.

    - Kalonica Quigley
    S3237922

    Mmm… exoskeleton…
    www.engadget.com/2007/11/25/sarcos-military-exoskeleton-becomes-a-frightening-reality/ science.howstuffworks.com/exoskeleton.htm
    Video games are a thing of the past… well, almost

    ReplyDelete
  35. Talking about an exoskeleton:

    Nadia Berthouze has used one in her study on guitar hero. (She has also investigated if playing Monkey Bongo facilitates social interaction in a second study.)

    www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/n.berthouze/paper/BerthouzeKimPatel.pdf

    ReplyDelete
  36. it anh-tu here's my first post, We could make "games" for dogs but they could never understand that it is playing a game, it would just react instinctively with it's sense of play, they can't be "entertained" in that way though they can be engaged. I wonder if the race dogs that chase the mechanical rabbit around the racetrack slowly begin to understand the process of chasing this "rabbit" is a mediated process or if it's all instinct to them...of course we need to factor in classical conditioning as they a trained to partake in the race.......

    ReplyDelete
  37. Secondly my statement about the ridiculous nature of our degrees stems from the notion of how....

    *we are all adults- mature & intelligent this status implies

    *we are studying a medium that really doesn't have academic legitimacy at large

    *people are somehow impressed by this (usually because they think we've gotten away with some incredible crime, like studying video games has given us a get out of jail free card from "adult responsibility & maturity" and at times it really feels like it has)

    *we partake in rather intellectual discourse about video games delving into concepts about "play" & "immersion" & etc with intense passion, we sound like a bunch of philosophy students obsessed with discussing the senses, technology & narrative. this passionate discussion is immediately followed by a break which involves two students playing guitar hero- this obvious & immediate contrast strikes me as awfully strange & surreal..... as they say ridiculous....

    ReplyDelete
  38. @Kalonica: I agree. You're spot on. Last lecture felt like it degenerated into aggressive squabbling. Some (definitely not all, don't get me wrong - some people have raised some very interesting and intellectually stimulating points) of the arguments feel more like gold-star lust than intellectual engagement with the discussion. I feel like we could get a lot more out of these class discussions if they weren't being derailed so often. Anyway, well done to the presenters for getting through regardless.

    I did have something to say about the whole games for pets thing:

    It seems we all agree that pets can play but there's definitely some contention over whether they can participate knowingly in a game. Most people's definition on the difference seems to be that a game has an aim or a result. People saying that pets cannot play games assert that animals lack sufficiently advanced cognitive faculties to grasp the aim - therefore, they only play. This is an understandable assumption.

    However, I've seen my German Shepherd play a game with my sister.

    It goes like this: my sister says "Hide and Seek! Hide and Seek!", and she and the dog run in opposite directions around the house. My sister then hides once she is out of sight, and the looks around the house for her. This sounds sort of dumb to just describe, I really wish I had a video - because by the manner the dog acts, you can tell she is aware of the aim of the game. She looks around behind all the doors, under the beds etc... and when she finds her she gets really excited and happy. There's never been a food reward involved, she just seems to get "emotional satisfaction" (as Kalonica put it) from "winning" (finding my sister).

    I didn't mean to waffle about dogs for so long. So onto the next bit!

    I also wanted to say something about mind-body conflict. I'm quite a self conscious person, and personally, I've found that the more a game involves my body, the more disruptive that is to my engagement in the game. I find that I have real trouble focusing on and being engaged by the game itself because I'm distracted by my body movements. Other people seem to be able to negotiate this conflict better than I can.

    Or, more likely, mind-body conflict occurs at a different threshold with different people. So, if as game designers, we are trying to balance mental and physical involvement to minimise mind-body conflict and maximise immersion, it seems to me that this balancing point is going to vary from person to person. While my tolerance for bodily involvement before it disrupts my gaming experience is really low, others might find that to really get into it, they require quite a lot of physical involvement (and this is perhaps why the gaming market has expanded somewhat since the Nintendo Wii).

    Wow. Sorry guys. That was so long.

    Lisa Dyball
    s3229443

    ReplyDelete
  39. I've just realised that too much goes on these lectures to leave posting these comments to the night before, oops. Therefore I don't really have too much to say.
    I will say this though;
    A video game for pets would not sell...very much.
    Why would I waste money on that when all my dog needs is piece of crap, $2 chew toy and it will be happy forever?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to the last lecture, and I've left posting in the hope some of the presenters might upload photos/transcripts/ppt presentations. If any of you read this and can do that, I'd be much obliged :).

    Here's my feedback from what I've picked up:

    @Floyd about the X volts brain etc. comment, does higher brain activity mean more fun or immersion? Many people really enjoy watching TV, and that doesn't seem like it stimulates the brain. If anything, a higher brain activity would suggest the brain is trying to figure out how to achieve the action of moving. In reference to controlling a wiimote, this extra need for brain activity may in fact cause the player to be disrupted from gameplay. At least for me, I'd rather be focusing on gameplay elements than the position and rotation of my arm. That said, in exergames the movement of the body is PART of the gameplay; thus it doesn't interrupt it, but enhance it.

    I believe an issue was raised about the use of our degree(s)? I find this most amusing. Obviously obesity isn't as big an issue as starvation in 3rd world countries, or stray influenza virii, but we're not doing this course because we want to save the world. My guess is most people are either in it for the fun, the creative aspect, or simply money. At least in some way we'll end up enhancing someone's lives by creating an entertaining game (hopefully). How about people who study accounting?? ay?? who are THEY helping??

    @Michele about making games to tackle obesity being pathetic. I agree, it is sad. But everything is sad and always has been. If games can make people fit, and creates a new market to extract money from: go for it!

    How much of the happiness we gain from exergames is from gameplay, and how much from the natural exercising process? Let's not be confusing endorphins with emotion. I think it's much easier for a game to make you laugh or smile than it is for a game to make you cry. An exergame has never made me even slightly sad (excluding frustration at the interface system), while many thumb bashing games have.

    My conclusion is that exergames are made for pure fun and enjoyment - instant pleasure, while non exergames must rely completely on the brain.
    Pure enjoyment, however, is not necessarily an impressive thing. Take a classic movie - Titanic (for the sake of example), is quite a sad movie. There is no instant gratification when you begin watching it, yet it has one 11 competitive awards.

    Lastly, @Floyd again (lol I just love picking on the lecturer): Guitar hero is fun =] It gives you that instant happiness I was talking about before. The joy in it (I believe) is from conquering and learning to control the input peripheral and thus if it was keyboard/mouse interface it would fail. That said, I would hardly say the peripheral makes the game more emotional. The peripheral is a gameplay element- not an emotional device. The game can only be as emotional as it's creators made it. If you take away a part of any game's gameplay the emotional attachment will undoubted suffer. I'm interested about what you think of this argument.
    Also, I must say I find tilting the guitar extremely annoying. I always lose my combo =[.

    @Robert It's extremely difficult to keep respect in mind when in such a large opinionated class. Granted, I wasn't there this week, so I don't know if it was worse than usual, but the whole point of debating and putting in our ideas is to encourage people to step up and challenge other's beliefs - whether that person is a lecturer or not.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Samantha To s3197261

    The company selling Games such as Wii Fit uses the word fit as selling point. People buy it because they think they can get health. But really maybe they’re just getting fooled. Go play real sports, not a video game that claims to be sport.

    So why no games for pets. Maybe cause they wouldn’t know how to play. I’m sure if they did, people would rush to make them I mean who doesn’t want they pet to be happy .

    Brain function, the brain sends messages to the body so it can react. In class you are told the object will be hot when the button was pressed. Your brain already knows that, that’s why the body reaction would be quicker then you not knowing yet you still pull away quickly here its not the body that knows how to move it’s the brain its try to stop the damage. While a person with MS would leave their hand there yes that know it burns but the brain can’t sent the message to the hand so its all the brain not the body. Just like the example, there is a bear the body runs on its owns, not its not on its own, the brain is sending messages to the body but its so quick it seem like it going at its own its called involuntarily movement, something you don’t need to think about. (Blinking, breathing. Walking (you don’t think move your left leg and then your right leg to walk so on so on.)) Maybe a bit too much psychology.

    ReplyDelete
  42. hi, its lawrence here

    *Regarding to the DDR that were presented by both group, i think that, they make some important points such as the DDR impact in our daily life especially in japan where it came first in the arcade games and later it is brought to school as one of the activity to lose weight.

    *Also, i can say its amazing when the first group to present show us a video (Kung fu ???? ) games which it is really something new at least for me as an exergames that have developed so far. The main part i like it is where we, as players can play in a way we would like to and doing some impossible skills in the game like jumping high and doing some deadly kicks which makes the game like world class game.

    *Other than my opinion for the group presentation, some suggestions and ideas from floyd to inspire us are great. for instance, he mentioned games for pets which some of us thinks that are impossible and to be honest i feel the same thing as them as i havent saw any yet even i try to search on google and youtube.

    Lastly, still i would like to say thanks floyd for giving us chances to go crazy~

    Lawrence Wong
    s3175889

    ReplyDelete
  43. Evening all.

    @Mark Conte: Over 40 billion dollars spent on pets in 2007.

    If people will dress their dog in shoes and a scarf, and pay for dog-massages, they will pay for a dog game whether it works or not. (personally I think it could... great story by the way Lisa :D)

    Excuse me if I sound cynical, but I am.

    (http://www.scratchingsandsniffings.com/2007/08/41-billion-spen.html)

    @Kim: I always enjoy your writing, but in this particular post everything you said was so correct I could not help but cackle with glee. The trend in philosophical thinking to "return" to our animal roots is disturbing at best. I beam pure adulation at you. *squints hard*

    @Amanda: I agree with you. As much as I like a good wholesome debate (complete with hair pulling) being interrupted is just annoying. Questions should be saved till the end, and I apologize to anyone who gave a presentation if I forgot myself and butted in. With you threatening head-kicking, only the silly or headless shall oppose this new age of peace.

    @Lee: You pretty much put that whole "Wii is responsible for ridding the world of obesity" line of thinking to rest. Good show!

    And finally, I keep hearing that the quality of games is falling, usually pronounced as fashion a sadly knowledgeable fashion.

    My rebuttal? Some games released between 2008 - Present:

    Grand Theft Auto 4
    LittleBigPlanet
    Braid
    Portal
    Call of Duty 4 and Call of Duty World at War
    Supreme Commander
    World of Goo
    De Blob
    Disgaea DS
    Okami
    Persona 3
    Persona 4
    Madworld
    No More Heroes
    Halo 3
    Mass Effect
    Left 4 Dead
    Empire: Total War
    Street Fighter IV
    Super Smash Bro's Brawl
    Gears of War 2
    Fallout 3
    Rock Band 2
    Guitar Hero World Tour
    God of War Chains of Olympus
    Wrath of the Lich King
    Geometry Wars
    Fable II
    Dead Space
    Resident Evil 5
    Rez HD
    The World Ends With You
    Burnout Paradise
    Sins of a Solar Empire
    FIFA 09
    Little King's Story
    GRiD
    Valkyria Chronicles
    Resistance 2
    Patapon
    Team Fortress 2
    The Witcher: Enhanced Edition
    LocoRoco 2
    Professor Layton and the Curious Village
    FarCry 2
    Crysis
    Soul Calibur IV
    Audiosurf
    Sam and Max Episodes
    Boom Blox
    Prince of Persia
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R
    Spore (whatever anyone says, it was interesting)
    Skate 2
    Yakuza 3
    N+
    The Chronicles of Riddick, Assault on Dark Athena
    Saints Row 2
    Unreal Tournament 3
    Company of Heroes
    Mario Kart Wii
    Castle Crashers
    Henry Hatsworth in the Puzzling Adventure
    Pokemon Platinum
    Ninja Gaiden II
    Tales of Vesperia
    Metal Gear Solid 4
    Locks Quest
    Penny Arcade Adventures: On The Rain Slick Precipice of Darkness
    Strongbad's Cool Game for Attractive People
    Mirrors Edge
    Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift
    Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
    Trauma Center: Under the Knife 2
    House of the Dead Overkill
    Zeno Clash
    Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney
    Devil May Cry 4
    UFC: Undisputed
    Puzzle Quest
    Plants Versus Zombies...

    ...To name a few.

    I don't think we've ever been as spoiled.

    Love,
    Ned Kirner
    S3169859

    (P.S. Psychonauts was released in 2005, so it didn't go on my list, but you should all buy it. If there is an afterlife, owning Psychonauts is surely a precondition for entry. I think you would be fond of it in particular, Kim!)

    ReplyDelete
  44. Proofreading is truly NedMay 13, 2009 at 10:20 PM

    "as fashion a sadly knowledgeable fashion."

    Nice Typo, me!

    ReplyDelete
  45. Logan Gray s3235083May 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM

    Hey there, Logan Gray here.

    Soooo yeah ! hope you all enjoyed the presentation, i wanted to go over some of the things that struck me as odd. People for some reason picked at alot of aspects that were irrelevant. like Amanda Bailey said, people assumed automatically because people have lost weight using the Wii fit it is meant for JUST THAT. we tryed not to use word that implied this, using phrases like "In Some Cases" etc etc. And also , the remark about " so if i buy an excerbike and put a tv in front of it ... im playing an excergame?"..... No... no you are not. that was one of the most rediculous things ive heard, first off. an excergame includes the aspect of working out or movement into the game, not just and endless workout on the stationary bike and a tv. Excergaming uses the bike as a tool to play the game. Secondly, the same person said " it'd probably be cheaper to do that"
    again. your wrong.
    Workout bike :

    http://workoutworld.com.au/store/exercise-bikes/impulse-i888-revolution-bike.html

    $1700

    Wii and Wii fit bundle

    ~ $450

    and that excercise bike isnt even one that monitors heart rate or measures calories burnt. you have to manually adjust the difficulty.


    On another note.... Floyd. do you attend Blizzcon ?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Centrifugal SpawnMay 13, 2009 at 11:28 PM

    Yes I know its the night before, but I've needed time contemplating, etc. I found the last lecture got a bit out of hand with quite a lot of debating, blah blah blah, but all asides.

    I found the recurring concept of the mind and body as "clashing" while at the same time cooperating quite confusing, if not in the same way interesting. However I think you'll find that though doing something that challenges both together extremely difficult, but if you build up the level you adapt. However as the body or mind 'adapt' to the simultaneous challenge or whatever, it in effect becomes almost like a reflex or second nature. As far as the idea of whether the body sends signals to the brain first or vice versa, I believe it depends on the receptors involved in the action. For example the hotplate test and the light test are both testing two completely different receptors, the sensory nerves and the eyes, therefore your physical reflexes of your your body, and the reflexes you have attained or trained.

    In concern of the games for pets or games for weightlifters. Firstly it is apparent, as Ned stated, that people will buy games for all sorts or reasons and pets are no exception.
    http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/13706_monkey.html
    This is an article on an experiment teaching monkeys to play video games. I think that if people use games for things like this and animals show some level (however minute) of comprehension, then games for pets may not be so far off the mark.

    Overall I enjoyed the lecture and it allowed me to consider the different factors that go into exergames. Does a game involving finding different ways to mutilate and destroy your Wiimote using all sorts of physical things and hte game rates you on your level of physical exertion and ownage done to the Wiimote count as an exertion game?

    Sincerely,
    Centrifugal Spawn (Adrienne Giuliano 3236467)

    ReplyDelete
  47. 18 minutes to go until tomorrow oh--! OK: tops lecture, I've not much to contribute that's not already been hashed and rehashed about a billion times over. The mind/body loop proposed by Floyd was pretty interesting to consider; it got me thinking about which of the two really reacts to outside stimuli before the other. As it should have. Anyway, I discussed this with a nerd friend who insisted on pinning the "fight vs. flight" response, but there has to be something more to it than that re. neurotransmitters and all that. Can't presently think of examples, brain is deep fried mush.

    The point about "thinking" with your body instead of your mind in terms of coming up with physical games, while wasn't proven so well, was interesting, and I could see where you were running with it. Not much to extend upon that; as I said, deep fried mush.

    The bear was brilliant, too.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Last lecture is an interesting topic . All are about Exertion games. I do love exergames.Players could exercise and get fun when they playing by themselves or with family and friends. Although in lecture, some guys argued that Exertion game is not fitness, I think Exergames still help player not only enjoying the game but also exercising their body, rather than just sitting and playing video games. In my way, I think Exertion games are more fun than other game.DDR is a good game for an example.

    As Kalonica and Pranee said We should not interrupt presenters when they try to do their part. I agreed with that. Topic Exertion game is interesting but class contributors made lecture became so "fluff" and noisy .I also get aggressive with that. I hope listeners respect presenters in class so they could finish their work.

    Another point in lecture that Floyd give us an idea about making an exergame for pet. I think it's a good idea if we create a exertion game for both pet and human . It's mean, they can play and share experiences together with fun. And It's could be is the good way for people who want to train their pet.For example, we make exergame about training dog. Dog is a pet , they don't know what they want to do without understanding.So that Human is needed. Both human and dog play game together, interacting each other and practicing experiences.

    Last but not least, I just want to argue that Exertions game is a game for entertainment. We have both fun and exercise. It's good right?. Therefore we don't have to focus "could exergames help people lose weight??". Just think in simple way"game is entertainment".


    Thao
    s3242198

    ReplyDelete
  49. Recently I have been listening to the podcasts Floyd found on the brain-body loop. I absolutely love them, I have been listening to all of them since, very interesting topics. But the topic I want to comment on is the same one which Floyd also spoke about briefly and I still remember responding to at the time.

    It talks about the scenario, you walking in the forest and you suddenly you see a bear and very quickly you are overcome with the feeling of fear.

    Basically the question is what is that feeling of fear made of, what happens in your mind and for me the answer was simple. You see the bear and you drop a dart in your pants (you get scarred). And then the next question asked is why, why are you overcome with fear, why do you feel this way.

    So I thought about it and I came to a conclusion. Basically, because you are educated you know what a bear is all about and even if you have never even seen or been taught anything about a bear, in that moment you would realize your situation pretty quickly. Either you know what this bear is capable of or you recognize teeth, claws, size and draw an obvious conclusion, this bear is going to kill you. Hence, you become scarred.

    However, listening to the podcast and from what Floyd said in the last class there is a possible 2nd explanation. And this is how it goes.

    You in the woods, you see the bear, Grrrrrrrr. And straight from the start here is the difference, instead of you consciously recognizing the bear and linking that to knowledge about bears and how dangerous they are, instead before all this, your heart begins to beat faster and adrenalin is pumped into your system. You are not even scarred at this point, the body is reacting before the mind, and this is the part I disagree on.

    Apparently according to 19th century philosopher William James, the reason you feel those emotions is because, the brain sees the body’s response THEN triggers the feelings of fear. The feelings come from the changes in your body.

    Now the podcast goes on and on about this, very interesting, however I still think the same thing and I back it up with the following and I have mentioned this before in class. To a child (uneducated and inexperienced), everything is amazing and must be touched. If that child was in the same situation, bear, teeth, claws, in all likelihood it will most probably not even move, if the kid was having a good day he or she might even attempt to touch the bear.

    The same can be said for adults. If we don’t know that a blue bottle or jellyfish can sting us we wouldn’t even react to seeing one float next to us in the sea however I know and because of that my heart will race and I will become afraid.

    In the end I just thought it was a very radical way of thinking and that the idea of the mind reacting due to a bodily response seemed far fetched. To me what I just said seems logical and obvious, so if there is someone who disagrees with me and agrees with the other idea or maybe has their own, it would be fantastic to hear what you think.
    All in all, once again the entire lecture was fantastic. Group presentations were well done and I really enjoyed myself and that is what I think makes a difference when it comes to wanting to learn. If this class was anything like programming is for me, instead of all this writing there would be

    “Class was nice”

    ReplyDelete
  50. Both presentations in the last lecture were quite insightful in looking at exertion games and real exercise activities and how they both compared. The lecture also then looked at a variety of interesting points which I shall also address.

    It seems the popular directions that most game developers are heading towards especially now with the release of wii are games that involve some sort of physical movement or mini games that reflects on real exercises or sports. I personally don’t think games such as wii sports or wii fit were designed for any sort of weight loss success, they are targeted at the more casual gamers who enjoy occasional leisure activities. The term “fit” simply means been healthy and is a device for those who wish so stay in good shape. Now, I’m not denying the fact that there have been people that claim to have lost weight with the wii, but that is only through hardcore dedication and really when you think about it, they are in an unrealistic environment. I personally see it as more of a lazy person’s way to loose weight, instead of jogging outside and basking in the rays of vitamin d and actually wearing proper running shoes, they are indoors on a mat and running on the spot. Surely, they probably could have gotten a better result if they just played wow for 3 days straight with no food, and in no way is that a weight loss game either. It all depends on how the players execute the activities in the game. These games simply stimulates the experiment and idea of sports and exercise for entertainment values, in no way are they an exact replicate or replacement for real weight loss activities. Also the idea of a weightlifter playing a weightlifting game, sure he/she might enjoy it, but it is probably just short term fun as it is a downsized version of what they actually do professionally. So at the end of the day they’ll be picking up the 200kg weight and not a controller.

    Ok, the mind and body conflict, I believe everything the human does relates to the mind, it is the mind that processes information regarding the situation, movement and what needs to be done. We are aware of every body movement because they were decided upon in our mind. Then there the other example of the body notifying the mind and therefore it is the reverse process, such as if your hand was on a hotplate and thus the mind process this and tell you to remove the hand. I believe this is solely based on quick reaction and reflex, even though the message was sent to the brain and only then had we decide the action, it is a short procedure and such action does not need long strategic thinking nor logical reasoning, it is purely straightforward common sense; we realise we don’t like it and therefore we terminate the action. Whereas when people interact with games, the mind is far more complex as we need a higher level of focus and thought process. Games all have the common goal of needing the player to execute an action and achieve a certain goal, and most game plays rely heavily on our hand and eye coordination as there are things to be seen and read and we must process those into the mind in order to carry out the action that will continue the game. Mind and body interacts with one another differently depending on the situation, but when involved in a game, even though it might be rather physical, the mind still makes the decisions for the body. This is the common case with the exception of involuntary movements, where there are bodily actions in which the mind is often not aware of, such as breathing and blinking, and even the knee jerk (your leg kicks up when you hit right bellow the patella) But this is perhaps more of an anatomy science thing?

    Now, the topic regarding games for pets, well I agree with many of the posts here that animals reacts on instinct and are more suited to simple freestyle playing than actually be in a game. Since humans can’t actually tell animals that they are in a game, the concept is just not plausible. The whole idea just reminds me of some sort of animal testing with games and I’m pretty sure that they are happy the way they are now without us interfering, for all we know they might have a game already that only they know of.

    Lastly a side note on the guitar hero research on how the players felt more like a rock star when doing the guitar lifting movement, well I personally thinks this is due to the fact that it is possibly the only thing that resembles actual guitar playing in the entire game. I hate the fact that people automatically assumes you’re good at guitar hero if u play the guitar, firstly real guitars don’t have “buttons” nor do you stare at incoming coloured circles when playing, therefore the rock star movement is actually something that makes the players think they’re doing great and “wow! Look at me! I’m rocking out! and doing the thing that guitar players do!” This is possibly why guitar hero is so popular, it is another one of those games that stimulates the experience of the real activity for amateurs and people will always be drawn to things that make them feel good about themselves.

    - Jin

    ReplyDelete
  51. I think the presentation, as what the other guy said was somewhat similar to the rest. Anyway just as a note for the guitar hero, I actually do sweat playing the game and exert myself in such cases as playing the song "Through the fire & flames". My hands practically burns after playing the song. And not sure but I think you guys are playing guitar hero wrong, when playing with my friend, we usually do go crazy and "perform" by doing things such as spinning, playing the guitar backwards etc. Some gamers actually do use their imagination to make the game more interesting. Might sound retarded but its fun.

    ReplyDelete
  52. cheung yi kai s3232755May 14, 2009 at 9:16 AM

    I Love Japan Arcade Game! Since i live in Hong Kong.. there are plenty of Awesome arcade game from japan. And if you play DDR for half an hr...it is a good way to keep fit!!

    Pet's game!? why not? i am sure it will become a fashion for those pet master. We never know what our pet want.. but we want them happy! :D

    ReplyDelete
  53. I had always thought standing still was the best thing to do if you came across a bear, how possible that would be I do not know :P

    Would there indeed be a mind-body "conflict" in that case? Your mind would know that standing still is the best option, but your body would be screaming "Run!". Would your body, then, have a mind of its own?

    One can argue that it is not solely pre-knowledge of the subject matter that triggers the mind-body loop. Yes it would have an effect to a degree and we can clearly understand why. But if you were to come across something you had never seen, or heard of before (eg. alien, funny example), would that not scare you, clearly because you are not familiar with it? Could it be the fact that you feel insecure because you "don't know" what the unknown subject is capable of? Maybe it's the lack of "safety" and "trust"?

    Try and connect safety and trust with the games we have today. We're obviously feeling safe because we know that all we're playing with is a bunch of pixels. Some of us may be a little more sensitive when it comes to multiplayer games, because we know that there's other people playing on the other side of the screen. But "anonymity" usually captures a large amount of players and draws them to actions they would not take in real life.

    Whereas in exertion games, like sports for example, there is always a risk (physical risk, ie. injury), a feeling of unsafe. And therefore the mind-body loop is triggered.

    I hope I haven't derailed from our topic.

    The presentations were fantastic, I am truly loving the discussions that are rising :) The pet ideas were interesting. This is an idea I had: Imagine using your pet as an "avatar". The possibilities are limited to your imagination :P

    As a conclusion, after reading through my comment, I believe it falls under the "Evaluative" title, because I have considered various ideas and put forward my opinion as a conclusion.

    Cheers!
    Chad

    P.S. I encourage people to read through the Social Play chapter Floyd has kindly posted. Very engaging piece of text. I haven't been able to read through it all but I like it so far: Social Play chapter

    ReplyDelete
  54. Ok, I have only read about half the posts so I may or may not repeat some stuff and/or sound really stupid. Plus I'm at work... I should be doing work.

    First up, on the quality of games and that sort of thing... Does everyone know how the games industry works? Does anyone really think that a game company deliberately makes a bad game? Unfortunately a lot of game studios aren't in the position to develop their own IP (Intellectual Property) (so they can make their own games). Game studios are the same as any other business, they need to make a profit. So what a lot of studios do is make games for other people. Most times what they are asked to make isn't a new idea because people aren't willing to take risks with the amount of money it costs to make a game.

    Also on that, if you want to see just how conservative the games industry is take a look at the "good" games Ned listed. How many of those were original ideas? I couldn't help but notice the number 2, or even 3, 4 or 5 most of them... Final Fantasy 138 FFS!

    Ok, I was going to write more, but I really should be working.

    Geoff Walker
    3132428

    ReplyDelete
  55. Hmm im not exactly in the right mind-set for 'maths and physics', at the moment but i would like to pitch an idea of mine.
    On the topic of games for animals (dogs). In the wild dogs prove their dominance through combat; they fight within the pack for title of alpha-male, they fight other packs for dominance of terrain and they fight other animals for dominance in the food chain and natural selection.
    Basically, the reason dogs partake in activities apart from necessities (hunting for food etc) is to prove their physical dominance.

    Humans are fairly much the same;
    Humans also fight to prove their physical dominance, if you disagree on the basis that humans have evolved beyond the need for this, i have one word; Sport. Everyone has the natural desire to prove that they are better than other people, which is instinctually demonstrated through physical combat as with all other animals. This demonstration proves the natural viability of an individual which is supposed to act as a display of the ability to produce superior offspring.
    However, there is something that separates humans from all other animals, our intellectual superiority (at least for some) and opposable thumbs. Now i cant speak for everyone but as far as im concerned, the most prominent activity that requires a heightened use of both these features is playing video games. The reason we play games is to exemplify our dominance over the game or over our competitors in the game, but this dominance is not, at least not directly, in the form of physical combat, but rather intelligence. In terms of physical dominance, at most, video games can prove superior reaction speed, but more often than not video games prove superior intelligence through thought, focus, patience, memory etc. fields of which there is no evidence that animals such as dogs have any desire or reason to prove their dominance in.

    ReplyDelete
  56. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Ciao a tutti!

    I apologise for this being late, but better late than never ^^

    Anyway, I will begin by saying what a fantastic lecture it was last Thursday. Floyd you never dissapoint :)

    The first group went well. They knew what they were talking about, however the lack of organisation kind of let the team down a bit, considering the amount of time you had to prepare. Other than that I didd enjoy your presentation. You handled the questions well and the videos that you played were intriguing. Finally I agree with the point [I forget who said it] that if you want to get fit, buy proper equipment. There really isn't two ways about it. The second group, again you made some very interesting points and the content was really good.

    Finally I will conclude with some notes and comments about the lecture at Melbourne Uni last night [ to those of you who did not go, you missed out on some interesting information].

    Dr. Jeffrey E. Brand produce an excellent presentation that effectively outlined the causes and concerns of having properly classified games.However, one point that I personally disagree with was the survey results as a result of the survey he conducted that resulted in the amount of Female and Male gamers being almost at the same percentage. I personally didn't sit the survey, but I think that an accurate assumption would be that the term "gamer" or "gaming" may be ambiguous among humans in this day and age. Take the Fable videos for instance, that most of us viewed in the Games Studio lecture yesterday...notice anything?...THERE WAS A LACK OF FEMALES! This is not a battle of the sexes and nor am I intending it to be that way. The definition of "Gamer" according to Wikipedia states "While the term nominally includes those who do not necessarily consider themselves to be gamers (i.e., casual gamers),...it is commonly used to identify those who spend much of their leisure time playing or learning about different games." ALSO what KIND of gamers were taking the survey were they [again I quote from Wikipedia]Hardcore gamers, Retrogamer, Import gamer, Cyberathlete, Newbie. I think that the results from the survey may have entered a grey area with the term casual gamer and gamer essentially being viewed as being the same thing. Sure females play games but really how many of them are of the commonly used term of "Gamers"?, Maybe I missunderstood the results and survey, but as far as gamers go, females are in the minorty...sorry.

    Some more points that he made, whether some of you are aware or not, is that we are the only western country without an R classification. Although results show that we have an increased awareness of the rating system and as time goes on we are wanting to have a [half decent] rating system, we are yet to be allowed to have R rated games. This amuses me in the sense that we have R rated movies freely avaliable to adults, but not games. Furthermore to any of you who have seen The Godfather (part 1) check the classification on that...yes it is R. My point? They brought out a Godfather game a few years ago with pretty much the same story line and the same events yet that game was rated MA 15+? AND from playing it, the game is far worse than the movie in terms of graphic content. [The game is awesome by the way ^^] This leads me to another point that Dr Brand made, that games shouldn't be treated differently to other forms of media and that is EXACTLY right. Why should there be restrictions on games? Ok, there is a form of interractivity with games that the consumer should be aware of especially when there is extreme graphic content (like in Manhunt) but shouldn't we be the judge of that? Look at alcohol, we know it is bad for us and if you drink it excessively you are going to wind up dead sooner than you should but they don't ban us from drinking it? Nor do they monitor how much we drink. Then why ban games with an "R" type of classificaiton. If the government had some form of a brain between the ears that do not listen to the voice of the people, they would implement some form of system where if you want to buy such games you need proof of ID, just like with alcohol. It won't stop underrage people from playing it, just like with drinking, but it would lower the chances of an underrage person purchasing it. This strategy still allows for Adults (who fall into the most common gamer in comparison to other age groups) the opportunity to purchase these games, without having to buy/download it illegally or WORSE get a sensored version while the rest of the world enjoys the proper one.


    For those interested there is a classification system, that Dr Brand discussed last night called PEGI and it proposed that our 19th century buerocratic system will be replaced by scheme like PEGI. Well, we can hope ^_^

    For more information on PEGI (rating system) visit: http://www.pegi.info/en/index/

    That is my evaluation of the current events.

    Lauren :)

    ReplyDelete
  58. Daniel Kidney 3237937

    I found the first presentation used videos well to lighten the mood, but sometimes their actual argument was lost, and they seemed more neutral then actually making a point. And some things seemed off topic, but this is more due to questions asked that led them down different paths which they did a good job of answering. The second group did a good job of making their content seem fresh after the first group covered half of what they were talking about. The answering of questions wasn't their strong point but generally they gave a good idea of what they were talking about.

    Personal opinion on the Wii re: Weight loss. Seems to be the majority opinion anyway. The Wii-mote was designed as a gimmick and advertising tool. They probably had already designed before everyone became weight aware and just timed it perfectly to jump on the band wagon when everyone was like OMG we're fat. The Wii's success, is not in the games, not in the graphics, not in the wii-mote. The Wii's success is purely from marketing to untapped consumer groups and pacifying their console to suit those consumer groups.

    Excer-games aren't new but I don't think they'll ever be as popular as sit down and fatten up games just because they aren't as accessible. Room is required, and if we don't find them convenient in this big brown land I don't think they'll reach the living rooms of any other countries. Arcades are different of course but that is reliant on the culture, ie we don't go to arcades and dance off other cultures might.

    Excergaming in this country and culture is a fad, mainly cos its hard to hold a stubby and run jump or do anything else, using a wii-mote is possible but a man would have to be pretty drunk to consider using on of them over an xbox with COD 4 in it. You can't drink and play, but you can wait until someone breaks your 10 kill streak and have a swig then. Anyway i feel I'm losing any coherancy I once had so i'll finish it up.

    Excergaming is a fad, and the Wii-mote is a gimmick which is a marketing tool not a weightloss tool.

    Kidney

    ReplyDelete
  59. Rhiannon BaragwanathMay 14, 2009 at 3:24 PM

    The group presentations were really good. A bit disorganised but I'll probably be worse. The first group was especially nifty, you made some very interesting points. I'm sorry I don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said. Go exertion games!

    ReplyDelete
  60. So this is pretty late. I'm just sneaking in before the next class really.

    Good lecture last week, although i do have to agree with those who expressed concern at people's readiness to argue at the drop of a hat. We almost had an argument raging about churning butter. Better than no discussion at all i suppose!

    As for the bear situation, i think there is no doubt that the brain must identify the bear before you can freak out. Reflex actions only occur with movement. There are certain times when the body bypasses the brain and reacts instantaneously. Like being tapped on the knee with one of those mini doctor hammers. Maybe if the bear was tapping you on the knee...anyway i digress. Designing any game that made you use reflex actions would be very hard, it would need to give you physical feedback. Like a rumble pack i suppose.

    Everything about exergaming has already been said it would seem. I agree that exergames are not meant to replace proper exercise, nor would they ever. They are a form of enjoyment that happens to help you loose weight as a convenient side effect.

    Games for animals eh?. It would be a challenge to retain the attention of the animal for long enough. Especially since it would have no concept of playing a game in the first place. Perhaps it would only work if the dog or cat or whatever could come and go as it pleased. Or it was strapped in.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure no-one is going to read this because our lecture is in less than an hour. Guess i should get in earlier. Also I'd have a lot less comments to trawl through!

    see you all soon.

    ReplyDelete
  61. andrew "dooshie" demetriouMay 14, 2009 at 4:21 PM

    hey everyone, howsit

    i love our debates and whatnot, although i do agree with amanda's 'kick you in the mouth' comment. very valid points amanda.

    exergames were obviously not meant to emulate actual exercise; i'm pretty sure people just made that up. just like people made up led zeppelin being devil worship and all that jazz.

    humans are pretty open when it comes to things that allow them to form an opinion, and therefore they will always be many on everything.

    hufffff vague...

    anywho, about the lecture, i thought it was pretty wicked as per usual. i enjoy how much "win" they are (especially giving us tasty emails and REAL WORLD contacts! thanks floyd!).
    i love the examples of possible exergames like the bodybuilding one and the game for dogs. they are nice ways to define what exergaming and gaming actually is and a good way to define target audience properly.

    i'm not a big one for arguing, so i don't do much of it in class, but i think i will have to form radical opinions to keep up with all the other extroverts in the class :)

    also props to geoff for being in the same boat as me. i say "hey guys" but i know no one is reading it xD.

    anyway i'm done.

    much love,

    -dooshbag

    ReplyDelete
  62. I wasn't there on the day but here's my comment regardless.

    I don't think the wii was designed to help you lose weight. I doubt they did any research into weight loss because it doesn't show with the design. The wii fit is designed specifically for it, obviously. It's in the name. Wii FIT. If the wii was ever meant for fitness, why would they bring out an accessory for fitness?

    Wii sport was also just a step in the direction of sport. A new fun way to play a console game. It wasnt meant to takeover real sports. The fact is, if ur playin games indoors, then ur playin games indoors. Doesn't matter if it's WOW or a sports emulator, i dont think anybodys dumb enough to believe that they can get all the excercise they need off flicking their wrist.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Hello!
    I apologize that this is so late.

    I will start by saying that I enjoyed the two presentations this week and the lecture given by Floyd.

    However I must say that I was rather concerned when Floyd said that we do not come to university to learn, we come to get a mindset. I agree but to an extent. I think our teachers should teach us things such as how to professionally make a game etc! That is what we are all here for right?

    Anyway I wont blabber on too long on that subject…but yes that did concern me.

    Also kudos to Amanda, I agree with her comment very much.

    I think that the idea of making a video game for an animal is different…doable, but I don’t see the need. Humans need to be entertained, otherwise they get bored. Animals such as dogs are entertained with the one ball for hours and hours.

    So why make a whole video game for a dog?

    Humans do not NEED to play video games, but they need to be mentally occupied, if its by working or watching TV, or talking with someone, video games are another way to keep that person mentally occupied.

    Dogs need to be mentally occupied too, but not to that degree, so making a video game for a dog or cat or bird, whatever, is a waste of your money and time.

    Aww well I just read Daniel and Jacobs comments and now my comment sounds redundant…They articulated the point better though and I agree with them very much!

    Anyway I also don’t really like the fact that we are getting marked for the in class discussions. I find that I like to go home and think about what has been said and then write everything down. That’s why I like stating my thoughts in this blog.

    But I suppose that Floyd is trying to teach us how to think faster, articulate ourselves better and ask good questions.

    And well I cant really argue with that, but I just wish we weren’t being marked for it.

    Anyway I really enjoy Maths and Physics and find that this way of learning sticks with me and makes me think outside of the box. I think we are all very privileged to have a teacher that makes us think differently.

    Anywho! Have a good one.
    Cheerio!
    Carlita.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Sama Rind (s3239506)May 17, 2009 at 10:56 PM

    I know this is super late. But!

    Exergaming, oh, I'm so tired of the concept. The Wii wasn't exactly made as a 'weight loss tool' - but now it's being used as one. And it works. Hm, smart marketing, Nintendo.

    But I think we've over-exercised the idea of Exergaming. (pun totally intended)

    I think we, as future game-makers, can make games mean something more than 'exergaming'.

    Games don't need to be fantastical or fancy; we don't need to play games wholly for entertainment. As the industry progresses 'games' will start to mean something *more*.

    We can slip away from pure escapism and raw entertainment. We can make real 'exercise tools', educational games, games to rehabilitate people, to teach Braille, etc. Who knows?

    There's always going to be a market. And I don't think there are many weightlifting avid gamers out there.

    Also, games for pets isn't such a horrible idea. Don't think of a pet version of Fable! Think of creative ways to teach guide dogs or to rehabilitate crippled animals.


    Cheers!


    Sama

    ReplyDelete
  65. sooo this isnt a late comment at all...

    but exertion games presentation was super interesting.. whether it was an exertion game or not, i actually sat there and was really engaged in the discussion (not like im not every other lession)
    good stuff

    ReplyDelete
  66. s3200763- social, emotion, mind-body loop, mind body conflict, performance are all essential aspects for game design. was good to learn aboutall of them/

    ReplyDelete
  67. George SelemidisJune 7, 2009 at 2:08 AM

    I dont think there will ever be games for pets or weightlifters. There will be games with weightlifters and pets in them. Its nice to see the wii creating things like the wii fit to encourage physical activity, but thats all it will ever be. A tool to encourage people, it will never replace the real thing. I mean ur never ganna see wii sports as an olympic event.I think if we focus too much on trying to make games physical or make them exergames we will begin to draw away from the fact that they are games.

    ReplyDelete
  68. I enjoyed this lecture. Everyone put up a pretty good arguement agaisnt each other and the discussion was very productive.

    I was very interested in the topic of Exergaming & Real life exercise. When people talk about obesity, we often think about the fast-food industry. But that's only one side , we also have to look at the other side—the energy-out side. So it's very important to look at ways in which we can reduce our inactive time and increase our share of time that gets moving." Exergames will keep players moving and balance the energy equation while they enjoy games.

    Some people will think that exergames are ‘too good’ , because they make additional instruction unnecessary. But I think exergames could be either good, great, bad, or ineffective.

    I've never try to play exergames, like Wii Fit, but my friend does. It's probably the only way that my friend gets any real exercise into her day. She really likes the tennis game. But I would think most of these don't burn quite as many calories as the actual activity because you're doing it in place and you are using a little remote thingy instead of say, a tennis raquet or a baseball bat. Also, fwhen you are doing excercise outside you are "exposed" the the "elements" like changes in terrain, wind, different surfaces . . .all which increase the intensity of your workout.

    Anyway, i think the Wii was made just as a fun way of playing video games, and its main feature wasn't used to weight loss. As for me, I wouldn't ever replace running outside covering ground with running in place ...better to do jump rope if you want to do an exercise that doesn't require you to travel distance.


    Jiajing Zhang
    s3213125

    ReplyDelete
  69. I was going to write more, but unfortunately,I can't clearly remember anything else from this lecture. Maybe we also discussed the body-mind relationships ..><.sorry.

    ReplyDelete