Thursday, May 14, 2009

Class 5: Difference between a good and a very good game

Today you have learned about how a mindset on the design themes for exertion games can make a difference between a good game and a very good game.

You have also practiced presenting an elevator pitch, and received feedback from the entire class on your project.

You have also learned that you can easily extend your game to the physical world with Arduinos and the Wiimote, please refer to the groups' members if you have any questions.

Please make sure you check the project presentation page that you know your team's letter and when to present your final project.

Homework

Use today’s feedback in your project
Your project needs a webpage!
Prepare a 5 min presentation of your project
Enter your blog comment
Read presentationzen.com

68 comments:

  1. Another good lesson. It was interesting to hear the other groups presenting their games, there was a nice variety. I liked the one with the idea of the light beams (which the player must jump) and both the boxing ones. Also i liked the tetras one a lot even though i think it still needs so "refining" i liked the New approach to an old classic (good job to that group). The feedback helped because it pointed out what sort of stuff we will need to put into our "speeches" when we are presenting games to "the guys who give us the yay or nay" :-)

    -Mick

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  2. I just wanted to say that the direction Floyd is pushing us in thinking wise is really opening my thoughts about games up.
    There's so many things out there these days that can relate to games. I've found myself sitting on the train and just thinking about new and inventive ways games can be made/implemented in the world for the whole ride back home & then some more thinking when i get home haha

    QUESTION FOR FLOYD
    For the assignments:
    Will you be looking at originality as an aspect of the game's idea?

    I just kind of sat there today and thought how everyones games were a take on of something else like.
    Tetris, Boxing, Racing, Whack A Mole blah blah blah.
    OR they take on something you can do in real life already
    eg. Cleaning, Paper throwing,(although this one did have the edge of destroying the houses n stuff which u can't really do in real life without bein classified as a jerk haha) Rock Paper Scissors
    They're all games that you can already play but your just enhancing them more by making them physically active.
    I personally don't see the originality in this n therefor it seems kind of bland to me.

    But that's just me..
    I guess it's hard to come up with original ideas as most of them have already been done though haha

    Anyone else feel this way?

    P.S.
    and what happens if you have a really original idea and then someone else in the class steals it n makes millions?

    thats actually something that worries me about this class :S haha

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  3. Of course I will! And so will the rest of the class!

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  4. TecD'A - "They're all games that you can already play but your just enhancing them more by making them physically active".

    That's totally true, but yet i think its a really good idea. We all have our favorite childhood memories of games, so bringing those back in new forms is great fun. They're also familiar. Familiarity is very important to me. I like to see new innovations, but i still need a level of familiarity with the game, but maybe i'm different. What does everyone else think?

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  5. Hi, it's Nicholas Lim here.

    Once again Floyd, way to make us think about waht makes a good game and what makes an even greater game. I was waiting for that particular lesson and was wondering when it would emerge!

    To Benny Head:

    I think that you are right and I agree that familiarity helps people get into the game, as they know mostly what they're gonna experience. And you are right that innovations are important, afterall, there's no point rehashing the same game over & over again with only subtle differences or changes as it would severely hamper game development and keep it stagnant.

    Concerning the Project Madness Session:

    It's cool that cooments instead of questions were voiced. I found that that sort of direct and brutal input is exactly what everyone needs. If there questions there would be an in-class debate of sorts and it would probably be better if such a thing be posted in the blog in an appropriate manner.

    Concerning TecD'A's worries of plaigiarism:

    I suppose you just have to remind other people and ahve them understand that ideas from other teams are their intellectual property, and that stealnig that idea is just about equal to stealing their car/ physical assets. I propose that evey group find some way to put their personal stamp on their ideas to prevent plagiarism.

    That's all for now. Thanks.

    Nicholas Lim
    S3186372.

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  6. Ned here.

    @Benny Head- You should check out Braid, if you haven't already. Does a good job of playing to your familiarity with platformer cliches then turning them on it's head. Also, the JRPG Persona 3 play experience goes something like this:

    "Oh, well isn't this a cliched JRPG. Trendy though. Nice headphones. High school students unleashing hidden powers. Cliche Cliche Cli*BAM* CHILD ABUSE *BAM* COLD BLOODED MURDER *BAM* DRUG DEPENDENCY *BAM* TERMINAL ILLNESS!"

    So yeah. Familiarity is a good thing, provided we don't fall into cliches for the sake of cliches.

    @Plagiarism: Is any idea we come up with actually our own? Not sure if there's any legal barrier to me running down to the patent office and gobbling all ideas for myself like some bastardized IP-thieving incarnation of Pacman.

    @One Minute Madness: Brilliant. I can't help but come out of these lectures feeling empowered. Such a tasty mix of rhetoric, practical design advice and inspirational ideas all kept within the context of our future careers.

    Toodles,
    Ned Kirner
    S3169859

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  7. Cheers for another wonderfully interesting class Floyd and some great presentations from the groups. Arduino and the technical possibilities is all rather exciting for me as I love being techy as well. Unfortunately we won’t be using one for our physical game but are you selling them to students when they arrive Floyd...? I am possibly keen to play with one myself for fun.

    Also, curious how groups are assessed? Is it one same mark for all?

    To TecD'A, I personally would not steal another’s idea as it goes against my own personal morals, I can not speak for other’s however. I’m sure we all have some pretty good ideas locked away in our brains. I have personally chosen to keep the best ones a secret until I’ve written a Game Design Document & Treatment for them, attached with a Non-disclosure Agreement for those I chose to show eventually... but that’s my choice. I thought I may have risked entry into this course by not telling my grand plan when I was interviewed... you know, “if you had the ideal & could make anything, what would it be?” question.

    My main query on many presentations was that the emotion they wanted players to feel was fear of pain, which in my opinion, unless you have a sado-masochistic bent, is not all that fun. Being scared is one thing, being injured, shocked, or “spiked” is a whole other UNFUN kettle of fish for me.

    Also, I thought the mind-body loop was related to how the imagination is appeased by the tactile nature of the game and that the mind-body conflict was more about balancing the physical exertion side of the game with mental activities, strategies, tasks, etc...but now I am a bit unsure so if anyone would like to discuss it or clarify it more...that be real sweet! Floyd???

    I had other thoughts but unfortunately I can not remember them now so chow for now.

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  8. Pranee,
    Yes and Yes is the answer :-)

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  9. amanda bailey... is the best chuck out the rest.May 15, 2009 at 11:40 PM

    firstly i'd like to say i loved the game you showed us floyd..the one with people attacking the squishy wall. fun fun fun i'd buy it and put it in my living room! if i had a living room o_O

    hrmm what else. great presentations from both groups. very entertaining (: i'm quite fond of a good laugh. and as for everyones exergame ideas, there were alot of great ideas. Ned i would just like to clarify after you gave your presentation floyd pointed me out to comment and i seen the look on you face, you thought i'd say something worth hearing but all i managed was great job well done, clap clap. and then you looked slightly dissapointed....... sozzzzzzz to the max but i honestly didnt have anything significent to say but your idea was honestly good and i did like it, it did remind me of twister slightly but it sounds like alot of fun (: and also,, shout out to my group member michele,, my hats off to you buddy you came up with alot of good concepts for our group you are legend. i appologise for my lack of intelligent input ): hrmmmm what else?
    fremantle just lost to hawthorn i want to cry.

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  10. Why?
    http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/14/arduino-based-sigh-collector-is-clever-pointless/

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  11. Konnichiwa Sensei and fellow class mates!

    I really enjoyed the last lesson, the two teams that presented did very well I thought. Too bad about those Arduinos the first group ordered.

    Yay to Floyd for making us think outside the box. I find myself pondering on different ways to make a game too.

    The group of 5 ideas were all very different from one another and very interesting! I found myself wanting to play them! I especially liked the laser one, and the one where you have to deliver newspapers. But the Tetris game beats them all!! Teehee…;)

    But I must say in regards to the laser game, the “getting a shock in the leg, and the shock power increases when you level up” idea is not so good in my opinion. People wont want to play it because they will be afraid of getting hurt.

    So maybe you can have it like you loose points if you touch a laser beam or its game over and you have to start that level all over again. Or as someone pointed out, you can have it the other way around= You have to collect the laser beams!

    Maybe…But kudos to all!

    Another rewarding Maths and physics class!
    Sayonara!
    Carlita :)

    PS: Floyd, I commented on last weeks lecture just now. Sorry for it being so late!!!

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  12. @Amanda: If I looked disappointed, it was only because I knew that you'd ruined me for all other comments ;-D

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  13. Another interesting lecture.
    Enjoyed listening to everyones ideas, especially the exergames presentations. There were some fairly innovative ones, I think most peoples ideas were great. I'd like to see more of the boxing one.
    Was good to receive feedback, I cant remember who but someone suggested a cool idea for our exergame and weve taken that into account. :)

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  14. PS I am still searching for a 7 man team.
    if there are any groups seeking another team member please get in touch with me @

    adjudicatormusic@gmail.com
    or
    unemployed_buttnugget@hotmail.com
    or
    0419667798

    thanks, dave

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  15. Good day to you Mr. Floyd. At the moment I just have a suggestion for your game you showed us the last class the one where people go aggressive against a wall. Perhaps like what you were saying about guitar hero, you should have forced some performance rather than simply punch the wall like having the camera actually recording different parts of the body and how they strike the screen. More points for cooler moves eh?

    That's all for now.

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  16. Scott Battye S3201290May 17, 2009 at 12:26 AM

    The ideas were all interesting, can't wait to see the end results xD

    Wiimotes today are like mobile phones; they're seemingly everwhere, and have the ability to do just about anything.

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  17. Section 1A of Leigh’s blog post clearly states;
    Another good lecture, especially helpful was the feedback gathered from the madness session which helped to outline that there is quiet a lack of emotional involvement in our game concept, as it stands the ideas might sound fun but looks very sterile and cold. Now we should be able to move towards solving this deficit.
    The presentations where good, (especially mine) the Ardruino device was something that sounded really interesting to me when Gerald first mentioned it so I was happy to see more about that and pleased see that it seems really simple to use.
    The only other thing I can think to mention would be a little thing about Floyds' shadow boxing idea; firstly I found the whole thing pretty impressive, looks really fun as it is now. The only thing I can think to criticize about it would be the comic book style “BAM!” graphics that pop up where hits are detected, as an artist it was just annoying me, aesthetically, that they seemed to showing up in the wrong spot most of the time and they weren’t animated or anything fancy. So the only thing I guess I could ask from the shadow boxing would be more accurate hit detection that gives a prettier graphic on the other screen. I know it’s absolutely peripheral and completely separate to the core of the game and how fun it is but I’m a visual person and I often make a fuss about small things like that.
    -Leigh

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  18. Leigh,

    Do you want to make new "BAM" gifs? Please do so! There are 4 types: successful hit, unsuccessful hit, being hit, being missed!

    Thanks,
    Floyd

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  19. Hey hey hey people.

    Twas a good class, as always. I love the way that the late afternoon has this way of making everyone casual and crazy. You think everyone would be eager to leave, but instead we all just let loose. That’d never happen at high school : P.

    So yeah, great feedback system, despite how all the presenters were grinding their teeth as they bit their tongues : P. First of all, it was quick, which is fantastic when we’re all tired and low on focus. Second: it got a lot of fantastic, intelligent feedback out. But maybe that was all those fantastic, intelligent people. It always amazes me the level of deep, critical thinking we’re at in this course; it’s actually become very challenging and confronting. And I’m not just saying that : P.

    I know a lot of people stated some stuff that wasn’t really helpful in developing the concept, (e.g. “it should have multiplayer!” and the poor presenter is sitting there mouthing “it...does...have..multiplayer...”) but I think that was one of the most useful parts of the exercise. Because really, if the entire audience doesn’t take in the core aspects of the presentation, then it hasn’t been presented well enough. And I think that really helps in the whole presenting side of things, particularly cos we’re all going to have to present and defend our concepts in the future.

    Love the wall bashing idea; I can totally see a whole bunch of angry, recently-dumped people stumbling into an arcade late at night to vent their pent up frustration : P. I do think Gan was onto something with the performance. The way the player has to stay so close to the wall at all times seems kind of awkward and constraining. It’d be good if maybe you had to move back to build up a special move or if a run up gave you more power (similar to the wall breaking idea you had Floyd : D). Definitely a brilliant idea though and I’d love to go crazy designing and adapting the crap out of it : P.

    I think TecD'A should get some chocolate, cos the idea of plagiarism is something I’m sure we’re all worried about but afraid (or at least a bit worried) to admit it. And Pranee posed the all too common predicament: do we express our best ideas for better marks, or do we hole them up inside us in fear of them being stolen? I think that’s something I’d really like to hear an answer to.

    All in all, I’m just glad I got to show most of my hamster pictures : D. And thanks to all the girls who went ‘awwww’ when they came up lol. Too bad we didn’t get to show Leigh’s awesome animation work, but I guess it’ll just be that much better when we reveal it on the site : ).

    I’m out.

    I’m back!

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  20. I felt the rapid-fire feedback given in this lecture was really good - it was immediate, concise, and varied. Even if sometimes it was difficult to think of something on the spot, it was a very good way to highlight problem areas and weaknesses, as well as what people like. Also, as Jacob said, it's a good way of energizing the class and keeping us focused.

    I'm going to echo the sentiment that although my group isn't going to use Arduino in our project, the lecture definitely got me interested in having a play with it on my own time.

    @Floyd: I really liked that punching wall-game. It looked like a lot of fun. Thinking about how to improve it within the framework we have been discussing - I don't know if it already included it (hard to tell from the video), but how about if the game setup included a microphone, so you could hear the cries of triumph/rage/taunting/laughter from your opponent as you pummelled them? This would increase the social aspect of the game. I agree with Gan and Jacob about the performance aspect as well: it would be good if the game rewarded outlandish moves or combos of some kind; it would encourage people to get really into it.

    Lisa Dyball
    s3229443

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  21. I loved the wall punching game.
    it looked awesome. I think that more and more independant game makers are getting more and more appreciated among people of the industry.

    though the apprecaiction probably will never expand past people like us, who see games as an art form rather then something to entertain our tiny little minds for a couple of hours.

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  22. Ben Goodvach-DraffinMay 17, 2009 at 10:22 PM

    Sooo, i didn't post on last weeks blog because i'm THAT guy. But i'll merge the topics from last week into this one (as they're fairly related)

    In terms of the different aspects involved to design an exergame. I'm very strongly behind the concept of the mental/physical link.
    However i believe the performance aspect is definately dependant on the individual. Not all people like to perform in front of others and some would be definately be self-concious to dance around like a fool...others however will probably relish it depending on their disposition to be intro/extroverted.
    The social part of it is directly related to whether they are performance concious or not.
    The madness hour (and a bit) was good. Pretty brutally honest but i guess thats what needed. Although i don't see the point when some students yell out some fairly outlandish crap.

    Other than that the feedback is good, And i'm excited to see the full presentations in all their glory.

    The wall punching game looked fun, what was it for floyd? i presume researching something.......?

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  23. Floyd, I was wondering, like your previous soccer game, does this detect the force of your hits against the wall? Like maybe the harder you punch, you get double points as well and it adds some cool animation

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  24. hi,

    It was interesting to hear the other groups physical game ideas and also it was great to get some feedback on ways to improve our own games.

    Floyd showed us things that we should take into consideration when trying to develop a great game. Such as thinking about the performance, emotion, mind body conflict, how its social, etc. This will surely be very useful when planning for a game in the future.

    That is all ಠ_ಠ

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  25. Really liked our Madness session or whatever it was called, cos it really helped with our idea! And it also gave us a chance to see what everyone else was doing, and yeah !

    And omj, haha, the Hamster pictures = highlight of the lesson >_>

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  26. I'm absolutely snowed in with homework at the moment so I'm afraid this'll be brief. In my last post I said that I feel developers are restricted by controllers. If every developer was given the opportunity to craft their own controller for their game, I believe that we would find many games have the potential to become the phenomenal success that guitar hero has become.

    Physicality can be applied to almost any genre (not that it necessarily should be) of game, and we would see some really interesting results if it was more accessible...or something. :P

    I'm saying that the whole social thing always works both ways. If you have two people actively moving around, it's always more impressive than watching someone button mash on a couch. That's getting into atmosphere and I'm gonna be talking enough about that on Thursday.

    Nnnnn~ I think that's all I can think of.

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  27. http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2009/20090518.jpg

    That's what I'm talking about!

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  28. Logan Gray s3235083May 19, 2009 at 11:44 PM

    sup sup! its that time of the week that i enter my blog comment. i Really enjoyed the topics of this week's lecture, the guitar hero and arduino especially. The interest that the guitar hero and its rival have provoked in me are pretty big, i havent stopped thinking about the gloves game. it seems pretty interesting... but with the drawback of terrible accuracy. Even though if the gloves game WAS guitar hero today, im sure there would be some die-hard nerds who kick ass blindfolded. We also struck a very big part of the debate with the Star power part of guitar here. it tries to imply the feeling of a rockstar when you play and to help along with this, when you enter star power your guitar (or bass if your playing that) becomes louder. It is one of the pivotal points of the game.

    The Arduino group did very well, i cant wait to play around with one, even the simple flashing light was significant enough to make me smile. it just seemed so effortless, you make the code , you plug it in , you load it.. Bam, working functions. I can see myself trying to recreate that snake game but i dont wanna spend endless hours on something i probably wouldnt use, and the coffee table! amazing... definately going in my bachelor pad.

    thanks, Logan.

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  29. I gotta say writing down rapid fire comments is a little hard on the hand. It was a great idea though, not being able to respond makes you focus on the problems raised more, you're not just making things up off the top of your head. Its really good to just have that, especially when your ideas can be so broad, its hard to have perspective and I really felt that a session like that adds depth. Some of the ideas were really out there, and a few more needed to be thought through. But over-all they were great.

    The presentations were interesting, it was nice to see the Arduino group, it was a bit of a break from the last few weeks that seem to have been rather similar. The group that talked about the wii modding was really interesting too, some of those creations were really cool.

    @Carla: People still play paintball even though they can get hurt. People still play football even though they can get injured. Some people like things where there are more than points on a scoreboard to measure success. We're just trying to think outside the box. What we are suggesting is not painful shock, its more a twitch, its not painful at all, there are a ton of toys that do the same thing, there's a laser tag game where the gun shocks you when you get hit (Here for anyone interested). We're just trying to add something to a game that was going to basically be jump rope with lights. I should also clarify, the lights are essentially LED's under the ground, and we're able to control them in lines, patterns etc. There are quite a few game modes we came up with, but we only had a minute to present, so you just got the raw idea, thanks for the input though, I hope that alleviates any concerns ^^

    Long days and pleasant nights,
    Ben Taylor.

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  30. Great lecture, props to the people who did the technical presentations. I just took one look at "GlovePIE" and peaced out. Speaking of the pie group, A+ videos: the science was enlightening. Well done to the Arduino group too; I imagine it was pretty difficult to make blinking lights seem fascinating but you had a good go of it. Gold stars for all.

    The Madness session was also quite useful, and timed to near-perfection. Seemed like a lot of groups got quite a bit out of the comments made from it.

    RE. the shadow boxing game. Nice concept; you seem to have a bit of a fetish for that whole kicking/punching/bodyslamming a sensor-equipped cloth wall deal don't you! It is a fairly interesting and innovative game mechanic though. As for this particular game, while it blends the social and performance aspects quite nicely, I think the emotion is a bit lacking. You're bodyslamming a wall after all. Maybe this aspect could be enhanced via additional sound effects, or something less impersonal than a shadow for an opponent?
    (I'm aware the guy representing the shadow would be right behind the wall, but I maintain that increasing your interaction with them beyond punching their shadow would be an improvement to the game emotions-wise.)

    Not much else to add, homework and sleep deprivation are eating me alive.

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  31. The madness session was intimidating but helpful.
    and the glovepie group's presentation was very interesting :)

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  32. Good day,

    Hey everyone ~ Lawrence here. First of all I would like to put the link for the web of official arduino distributor from Australia. As I promise during my presentation.
    http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com/
    Also, there is one of the best physical games that created by arduino board that I discovered. For those who start to get into arduino stuffs, please watch this. hope you enjoy it
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCgMsrSaYwY
    *Elevator pitch – Certainly I agree with everyone who likes this way to give a “madness pitch”. This is a good idea, which everyone was given 1 minutes pitch trying to get as much main points to deliver to audiences and explain the gameplay and also the most important part is trying to get audience impressed with the game. Besides, some feedbacks really help to make the idea more developed (at least for my group).
    *Plagiarism – I kind of agree with Tec that there are a lot games copying ideas that was already made but with more developed version but I think that in games` world, there are a lot similar games copying or which they so-called by “getting inspired by” a certain developer. My bottom line is, I do not mind if people getting ideas form a certain games that are already exist but to developed it more, to make it even worth to play and etc.
    *Shadow punch game - I think it is a very good game that seems to be like your really up to whacking someone XD. I wonder if, only if instead of having the mattress or whatever it is that is attached on the wall. Sand bags would do too lolx… This way, even boxers can play the game during the training lol .And also if you ever think to punch someone real hard.

    Thats all i got for now.
    Lawrence Wong
    s3175889

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  33. Good day,

    Hey everyone ~ Lawrence here. First of all I would like to put the link for the web of official arduino distributor from Australia. As I promise during my presentation.
    http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com/

    Also, there is one of the best physical games that created by arduino board that I discovered. For those who start to get into arduino stuffs, please watch this. hope you enjoy it
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCgMsrSaYwY

    *Elevator pitch – Certainly I agree with everyone who likes this way to give a “madness pitch”. This is a good idea, which everyone was given 1 minutes pitch trying to get as much main points to deliver to audiences and explain the gameplay and also the most important part is trying to get audience impressed with the game. Besides, some feedbacks really help to make the idea more developed (at least for my group).

    *Plagiarism – I kind of agree with Tec that there are a lot games copying ideas that was already made but with more developed version but I think that in games` world, there are a lot similar games copying or which they so-called by “getting inspired by” a certain developer. My bottom line is, I do not mind if people getting ideas form a certain games that are already exist but to developed it more, to make it even worth to play and etc.


    *Shadow punch game - I think it is a very good game that seems to be like your really up to whacking someone XD. I wonder if, only if instead of having the mattress or whatever it is that is attached on the wall. Sand bags would do too lolx… This way, even boxers can play the game during the training lol .And also if you ever think to punch someone real hard.

    Thats all i got for now.
    Lawrence Wong
    s3175889

    P/S . Sorry for the messy version.

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  34. O.K so 1st thing, well done to the teams who presented, very nice work guys. I found the Arduino particularly interesting just because it seems so simple to use. It’s given me some serious inspiration to go and make my own little inventions. So well done to them, fantastic presentation.

    The rapid fire project bashing was fairly beneficial. We did get one or 2 helpful comments from the class so we will be working with those.

    In general the entire discussion we have been having about the body mind conflict has been really great. I think when it comes to a realistic experience in games obviously nothing is better than the real thing, whether its playing a guitar, driving a car or shooting at something. All of which have been made into games as we all know. I think in order to bring all of these experiences into the home one really needs to understand the reason for certain emotions. As with Guitar Hero we find that the star power move makes you feel more like a rock star or at least gives a small elusion that you are playing a real guitar.

    Again it comes down to our senses. Our sight, touch, hearing….uh for now lets leave taste alone. If arcade shooting games had actual recoil linked to the guns that would be a small step closer into total emergence.

    I think a very important aspect of any game is its intention and how well it achieves that. If Guitar Hero is suppose to make you feel just as the name implies then those aspects of what makes playing a guitar realistic should be the primary focus and I think the inclusion of star power is such an aspect.

    Sound and imagery had been around since the birth of games and we have managed to refine those aspects fairly well. The introduction, or rather I should say the growing popularity of movement incorporated in games is something fairly new and in my opinion in its infancy. Given time and research I truly believe that it can be the next evolutionary step in the gaming industry.

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  35. I'm not exactly sure where the physical game websites are meant to be posted so i'll just leave ours here.
    i think we're group H?

    http://wiiroll.uuuq.com/index.html

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  36. Suave lecture as per usual, regarding the one minute madness, it was a smart idea having 1 minute to sell the game and 2 minutes of feedback, we quickly learned which points were most important to bring up and also got great suggestions we hadn't even thought of.

    I was pretty impressed with everyone's game ideas, the rock climbing idea was pretty sweet, though as the resident vegan i feel it my duty to add that PETA would grill you for that.
    Oh, and Ned, your demonstration jig was stunning, you should take tips next time.

    The guitar hero debate;
    Of course all of us are going to try and convince you that we would have funded the guitar hero we know, because we know how successful it is and want to get it right.
    It seemed a lot of people had difficulty explaining why guitar hero was better than the camera / glove version, but can i just add that from a marketing perspective, if it came down to looking at them as to what would be recognized, would anyone really choose a pair of gloves over a trademark small guitar? If both had been released which do you think we as a group would recognize instantly? Guitar or a pair of gloves?

    Lastly, loved your game about fighting with the wall, i think you'd have a lot of success targeting sales at people with anger management issues or stressed out students.

    TAKE THAT CRIME!
    Scientist Nikki out.

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  37. @ Logan;

    Arduinos in your bachelor pad?
    that could very well be the reason for it being a BACHELOR pad.

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  38. Indeed, cool stuff went down last week.

    The main thing I took away from the lecture was "make performance part of the game play". I think that really is the key. I know one of the Bens mentioned that it was bad for super self-concious people. But I don't think that any of us as developers are going to go "Oh, we better not make it so people have to lift up the guitar for bonus points... We'll lose that massive self-concious people market"

    Besides, I think if it is part of the game play you get the mentality that it's not performance. It just becomes the way you play the game.

    About shadow boxing... At first I thought that's way cool! But after watching people play it I did notice that it didn't seem to be that accurate. I don't think I could play the game for very long because I'd get too frustrated.

    However my solution... Instead of a wall, make a manikin! I reckon put the manikin on a track that so it can move from side to side and give it a little mechanics so it can duck. Don't ask me about what technology to use to make this happen, I have no idea. Maybe the combatants need to wear sensors or something.

    Also Lisas idea of sounds is great. Even if you just had a limited selection of sounds like "Ouch", "Ooh" or a cackle if you dodge several hits in a row. That'd make it grouse.

    Geoff W
    3132428

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  39. One minute Madness was very interesting and helpfull. I think it would have been interesting, time permiting, for a group to present two embryonic ideas and recieve feedback prior to further development


    Pranee.

    I don't want people to feel pain in my game, what i want is to establish the relation between, success - reward, failure - penalty. There can be a very LARGE amount of padding on the gloves and altough our version uses buttons not presure sensors, they could be used to declare excesive contact.

    But the bottom line is, what makes this game unique is self restraint, in wii boxing for example, people flick their controlers around without fear of repercusions. In this game, you have to focus, if you just throw punches around without thinking, then you'l get hit. It may or may not hurt, but thats an issue that can easily adressed.

    Theres a little thing called controll. If your playing a game you try to just tag the person, its not like your trying to kill the oposing player.

    Geoff

    I completly agree with you about lack of accuracy. It's really annoying when your good at something in real life, then you play a game involving it and somebody is beating you just by using random movements.

    manequin - too bulky, expensive, maybe in a dedicated center, but then again it would be cheaper to get a boxing trainer and have him covered in ...

    SENSORS - thats the premise of my groups idea.

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  40. The presentations were informative and i learnt something new about the game world of hacking xD
    Well, the madness was fast... but hard to hear what the speakers wanted to say so it was a bit difficult to give proper feedback. I sure like that punching wall experiment - fun to beat up your opponent's or your own shadow :3

    I agree that our math and physics class have made us think more in depth of gaming... however it sort of confusing my mind of what games i really want to play and i look at how the games i play involve the things we've discussed in class (my brain won't turn off :| ).. it's been on my mind lately - oh well

    - Bao Di Tran s3235414

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  41. Hi folks!

    The presentations were great. Both teams did an excellent job. Too bad we didn't write up comments on the whiteboard =(

    The rapid-fire session was a really good exercise, having only one minute to put your idea forward is tough and requires practice. Great feedback as well :)

    In general, I think groups need to address a few things in their games:
    - What is it that makes players want to play your game? What is it that attracts players to it?
    - What is it that makes them want to keep playing? Social/personal competition? High scores? Interactivity?
    - How do you reward your players (this links with 'performance')?
    - How do you penalize the players that don't follow the rules (zapping them if they don't dodge the laser beam is a harsh but good example).

    Realise how all groups covered 'How to interact with the game"? ^^ That's probably due to the games being 'physical'. Compare that with Games Studio 1. The majority of the groups concentrated on the storyline rather than gameplay/interaction for their first presentations. Just thought I'd point it out.

    @Lawrence: Thank you for the links :)

    @Floyd: Who do I speak to if I want to buy an Arduino or two? And with the shadow boxing game, ever thought about being able to block? :D Receive only half the damage. No damage would be overkill :P

    Thanks! Looking forward to next class, very interesting topics! :) :)

    Chad

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  42. The madness session seemed to go really well, i think pretty much every group got something out of it.
    I enjoyed watching everyone else’s elevator pitches - some very interesting ideas, i didn’t want to pick a favourite but i think dodging lasers would be awesome and very exciting to play. - Defiantly my kind of game - I know people may not like the idea of being zapped, but it is what will make the game so entertaining. The adrenaline that comes with the rush of the game will probably help and I reckon most players will get a good laugh, not to mention the workout!

    I have to agree with Geoff where he mentions making performance part of the game play. In a social environment people don’t want to watch other people moving their fingers - the experience is far more entertaining for everyone if the players have to do something 'more' to play the game. That way the whole concept of playing the game requires the player to do things that they otherwise wouldn’t or rarely do, forcing them to jump into the game - even if it means looking silly, awkward, embarrassed or fkn awesome.
    Everyone can take part in this experience, even when not playing, by being able to cheer, jeer or even just appreciate what the players are doing. The whole ‘performance’ and physicality will open up the mood of the room, it would be far easier to join in and understand a game when the players aren’t stiff like statues, eyes glued to the screen….unless there was a free controller.

    Oh and thanks Chad, it’s always good to have a reminder about what we actually have to think about- with questions like “What is it that makes players want to play your game?” and it’s probably better to have some perspective on what your doing (sometimes I loose track)

    Coolio, catcha….errrr well later today actually O_o eeeek!

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  43. the presentations in the last lecture was quite interesting, espeically the videos and photos of the homebrew stuff that people have made, some of them were hilarious XD. Anyway, i can't remember much from the lecture except the guitar hero vs virtual guitar game, and why gh is more successful. Well, overall i think gh is a more developed game in terms of the gameplay and concept its got nice packaging, graphic, gameplay (point system, star power ect) and lets not forget all the awsome 80's rock songs, so therefore theres heaps of aspects to appeal to the public with. The whole idea of having an actual physical guitar controller for the player doesnt isn't that much of a trouble, infact it enhances the experience of the gameplay to a more realistic level, whereas the other one just seems like the average air guitar that everyone has been doing in their living room. GH also involves the interaction between the mind and the body as they must work together to comprehend the buttons and the incoming colour circles, so there is a degree of challenge here that encourage the player to do well and improve their score, the virtual guitar lacks this focus, since the player is simply moving their arms freely and may not even need to look at the screen, and therefore not involved in the game mentally. So for example, you can simply tell a random person to do air guitar with the gloves on in front of the screen for the virtual guitar concept and they'll probably do well, but with GH you will need to explain how it actually works, what buttons corresponds to which colour and when to hold the buttons, so this restriction provides "hard fun" and force the player to focus with their minds. Overall i think the virtual guitar game is a good concept but needs more polish and refinement in terms of gameplay and excution, i beleive it has potential to be successfull but requires ways to capture audience's attention.

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  44. cheung yi kai s3232755May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM

    Last week i finally brave enough to raise up my hand during the lecture.... because the ideas from all the other groups are so interesting and fun! I can't wait to see everyone's demo! Also now i learn the new way to judge what is a Good game. The mind body, social, performance, conflict... I can see why some game are so crap now :D
    Now i know what elements are need to create a good game and how to show those elements from your game. Plus the shadow punch game you showed us (great example.) A super clear understanding lecture!

    Arduino presented by Lawance's group had a clear explanation of what it is + the other group presented the hacking of wii remote... i can see technology are getting newer every year. New technology like wii remote, touch screen, etc. are still repeating what we can do in the past but in a new stylish way. more functions and easier to use. they can use the same idea and put into different product. Ppl may like and some just a stupid idea. And i dunno why i feel sth not right when everything get too technology... but on the other hand... who cares... ppls like them.. it make life easier and "better" why not?

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  45. Nothing could say more!!Last lecture was so great!! Everyone could hand up, talk and say their opinions! I hope Every lecture is like that.

    After watching the punching wall game, I felt as something woke up inside me "Hey, don't be passive, try to think make an exertion game!" Yes, It's right. I should make exergame rather than computer game .Exertion game open to a new face of game: playing game with variety of emotions, exercising their body and mind!! That make people who hates computer games could feel good and safety for themselves and their children.

    About Adruino!! i Like it and want to explore it!Especially, that flashing light coffee table. even I'm not electronic engineer or else , if i understand how Adruino working, I could get ideas and make a exertion game easier.

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  46. Ciao a tutti!

    Another fantastic lecture Floyd!!!

    I think the presentation madness was an excellent idea. The comments were short, sharp and to the point which means there was less time for elaboration and more time for direct points about aspects about the groups ideas for games.

    The Arduino is an interesting concept, and I want to buy that coffee table, they should manufacture them and sell them on thinkgeek.com they would sell like bananas to monkeys. ^_^

    The vacuum was cool and idea was enginuitive. If only they could incorporate some form of a wii a game with it ^^

    Anyway, that is it from me ^^
    I look forward to the next lecture :D

    Lauren

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  47. i was very impressed with how well the elevator pitch worked. The feedback was especially good as it helped my group consider more factors to our game that we had not before thought of.

    great job.

    daniel mills
    3233870

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  48. Samantha To s3197261

    The idea of every group getting one min to say their idea was good. Sometimes it doesn't matter how good your game is, the main idea is to say everything good about it fast yet clear. As long as the people get the idea of the game there always room for improvement

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  49. Madness session - awesome, felt like it went so speeedy mainly because we were racing against an alarm with was fun and made people want to comment more because there was less time frame so whoever wanted to give an opinion hadto shout out quicker than user. thumbs up to that. i thought it was fun, felt sorry for the people who were pitching the idea though must of been real intimidating for them if theire were heaps of suggestions screaming out to them..

    fun lession

    the presentations were good too, gold stars for them

    :)

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  50. . one above /\
    up there is | Leanne's s3237022!

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  51. I think the madness presentations were a good idea and really successful. It was really good to hear everyone else’s ideas, even if they didn’t make that much sense. Jacob Paris makes a good point “if the entire audience doesn’t take in the core aspects of the presentation, then it hasn’t been presented well enough.”

    The Arduino - I never would of thought making a blinking light was so easy! Golly
    Wii Homebrew/hacking – is an awesome way to think out of the box.
    The head tracking to make a virtual reality blew my mind and I can’t for it to be a part of gaming.
    I found a clip with the same guy, Johnny Lee, further explaining how it works and how to make it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
    (He uses the magic word: “immersion” !)

    Chad wrote “Realise how all groups covered 'How to interact with the game"? ^^ That's probably due to the games being 'physical'. Compare that with Games Studio 1. The majority of the groups concentrated on the storyline rather than gameplay/interaction for their first presentations.”
    - During the last lecture I was thinking the exact same thing:
    I went to the DAG lecture by Mark Morrison, from Bluetongue Entertainment, and he gave some tips on how to successfully design a game – create an outline before going into detail, focus on controls (how the game will be played) before even considering storyline and “any fool can make a game more complicated” (a simple game is a good game)
    And, after hearing those madness presentations I think we are on the right track 
    Good work guys

    - Kalonica Quigley
    S3237922

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  52. I think the thing that makes guitar hero a better game than glove hero, other than all the other points that have been mentioned, is its simplicity.

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever read through the instruction manual for guitar hero? I know i haven't. I simply picked up the controller and when the green circle appeared i pressed green and the clicked, its very simple and instinctual.

    Glove hero would require you to respond to a note by moving your hand a certain distance away from your body, which i feel would probably result in your instinctual movements not always being acurate.

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  53. The game presentation 'madness'. Was concentrated inspiration. Very, very useful and very, very quick. Some scribes probably are still nursing sore wrists. It was also good in that it showed some people the length of a minute, something a lot of people never seem to grasp. It isn't long.

    The Wii-Mote stuff was pretty interesting. Perhaps the Wii's technology isn't as shallow as it seems. Wii's technology is actaully quite amazing, it is the first of its kinda to realeased in a wholesale, massmarket and commerical manner. Nitendos use of it is probably more shallow then it is and their sacrifice of story, graphics, and gameplay just to incorporate the wii-mote more is flawed to say the least.'

    Both groups did well. Showing interesting aspects of the explored technologies and educating us all a little more on these technology. The lack of knowledge before hand was obvious in the extreme shortage of questions as compared to earlier additions of maths and physics discussion. Less people were willing to put their bit in until the end, having had time to form opinions or just a little something funny to say.

    As always, makes the brain work a little and explores what games are and what they could be.

    Daniel Kidney s3237937

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  54. Another enjoyable class about Maths & Physics!!! :P
    Haha, just kidding Floyd. I'm really enjoying the opportunity this class has provided, and am trying to get the most from it that I can. It is one of the better classes I've had at RMIT so far, and I wish all our lecturers were as enthusiastic and deeply embedded into what they do, and teach.

    Last weeks lecture was great, the groups showed off some really cool stuff. The game world can exist beyond the mouse and keyboard, or console controller and integrate with the whole body, and beyond for engaging, confusing, or down right mind blowing interaction.

    The coolness of these types of projects is somewhat outweighed by the innaccessability to the common human, or dog. For example, anyone with an average computer and a net connection can play a flash game, which uses a keyboard, or mouse, or combination of. But how many people will bother to go through the process to hook up a wiimote, or for that matter, even have a wiimote?

    The same goes for arduinos. Will the game be worthy enough of buying custome built equipment based on the arduino for home use? Or will it incite enough interest to go to a venue just to play it? Maybe so. I guess it all depends where you interests lie, by probably more importantly, where the users interests lie. If the paradigm changes, and people tend towards playing exergames (or any physical game), then the designer must adapt, and be aware of the technology and concepts in designing for these types of games. *end of ramble

    The project madness was great. There was great feedback, occasionally littered with pointless comments, that in my opinion were not constructive at all. But they were few and far between.

    Can I suggest the next idea that Floyd presents, he does in one minute? And then we make comments? :D

    Looking forward to tonights lecture.

    WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

    -Rob

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  55. I also forgot to add;

    Mark Conte, thanks for your posts. The Arduino sigh collector is great.

    I suggest that instead of a compressor filling the balloon up with air, it releases helium into the balloon with each sigh. And also, make it smaller, and you wear it as a back pack. So eventually, after sighing so much from a really bad day, you will fill the balloon up with helium, and take off into the sky, leaving your troubles behind you, below the clouds.

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  56. Hey there everyone
    Not much to say about this lecture, but it was pretty good to see the power of the ardino board, and the possibilities created by hacking big companies devices 8D
    Everyone's ideas were quite impresive. I can see some of them being big hits at an arcade.
    It's also nice to see that Nintendo arn't the only people to benefit from their new device. Freeware ftw! It's unfortunate that Nintendo has locked out homebrew, but it's what usually happens when piracy creates too much of a loss. I find it ironic that the PS3 practically encourages the piracy of other consoles (old ones though, like SNES) through it's endorsed Linux OS (Yellowdog), but doesn't allow it access to the full power of the GPU - thus disallowing it's own games to be played without purchase.
    Anyway, hopefully this innovative combination of technology (like the wiimote) will spread to other area of gaming and open the industry. It would be nice to see something like the wiimote marketed towards hardcore gamers for a change.
    Peaceout
    Cherie

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  57. vic (s3239097, there's another vic so yeh) here,
    sory for the late blog.
    last week's lecture helped my group w/ our exertion idea!
    we're presenting our idea today and we're gona be covering all aspects!
    see u there! =P

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  58. This subject should be renamed 'game theory' or something. Maths & Physics is so very misleading. Not that i'm complaining! quite the contrary.

    Both presentations - very insightful.
    madness - very helpful.

    The stuff about guitar hero was interesting. Made me realise that guitar hero doesn't set out to make you feel like you can play a guitar, but rather make you feel like a rockstar. And the other guitar game just focused on making you feel like you were just playing the instrument. Also if you tried to move around and rock out, the game wouldn't pick up the right notes.

    Shadow Boxing was pretty cool. You should be able to choose someone's head to display on the shadows as you punch them. This would surely help with stress relief.

    anyway thats all i got.

    Tim

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  59. Rhiannon BaragwanathMay 21, 2009 at 5:49 PM

    Oooh shadow boxing looked cool.

    Anyway, I only really have one little thing to say, and thats about Guitar Hero when we were all chatting about that in the lecture. When we were discusing why you'd choose Guitar Hero with the physical instruments over the othr game that's all about pretending, I thought another reason you may choose Guitar Hero is because the physical instruments help you feel more ... approriate. What I mean by that is if you're pretending, and you have no idea wha youre doing, youve never picked up a real guitar before, you may feel kind of stupid. Having the guitar would make you more comfortble and more likely to be able to get 'into it'. If I was playing with my friends and I felt like I looked like a moron, I'd get sooky and not want to play anymore.

    Just a thought.

    Rhiannon.

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  60. I forgot to mention earlier that any project developed while at University is partly owned by the University ... a handy thought to consider...

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  61. Centrifugal SpawnMay 23, 2009 at 4:53 PM

    Adrienne Giuliano here, 3236467. Sorry again for the late post. Not much for me to say, however there were several things in the class that were interesting. Madness was quite simply absolute madness. While the feedback was definitely useful I have to agree that it was also frustratingly difficult to get all the info down at once 0___^ Everyone's ideas for their games was also equally impressive, as I trust the exergame topic is something none of us have considered thoroughly prior to this course.
    The arduino presentation was very interesting, and the concept of the flashing motion sensor table was awesome, a bit of a novelty but awesome nonetheless.
    Overall, great lecture. Oh, and the shadow boxing was great. Though I personally found it difficult to differentiate some of the shadows at some points, which could have resulted in hitting both yourself and the opponent 0__^ oops. Anyways.

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  62. Really enjoyed 1minute madness. All the advice we were given was incredibly helpful for our projects. I was really surprised and how inspired/ helpful all the advice from my peers was.

    The guitar hero without the peripheral looked much more enjoyable, but it assumed that the player knew how the song played out - this also created a large margin of error.

    Guitar hero as we know it, is much more marketable. Maybe its just me but people typically don't want to play games that are"hard" or requires any knowledge that couldn't be acquired within the game.

    Thanks Floyd and everyone.

    MICHELE s3197203

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  63. I THOUGHT i had posted a comment for this lecture, but turns out it didn't go through.

    I just had to say that, the lecture was very interesting on how we looked at how some products/games don't get through and some do. The advantages and disadvantages of the product show through. With guitar hero, i think it has been a great success, being both entertaining, social and emotionally evolved. As soon as I got home, I played guitar hero. Guitar hero is similar to singstar in a way, that it constantly brings out new additions, such as 80's etc.

    Sorry this is late!

    Regards, Bec

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  64. using guitar hero and it's star power to explain this lecture gave me a better understanding about a good game and a great game

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  65. George SelemidisJune 7, 2009 at 2:29 AM

    I really like the shadow boxing thingy, the madness was slightly overwhelming at times, but worked in its own way. I understand the concept of how star power raises the fun of the game, and the survey you mentioned about how more people thought they were rockstars after they has used star power,was interesting but slightly unbelievavle. I mean If anything after playing gutar hero and messing up so bad I feel kinda disabled at times and nothing like a rockstar. Anyways great lecture as usual.

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  66. The Madness was really great, but I half way through I started to get a migraine and when I got home - bam! big icky starry migraine. *sigh*

    What I did love though, was that everything came together. The timing thing was restrictive for some, but worked for other presentations. The questions and comments from the group were really awesome. I know it helped with our initial ideas for our presentations.

    Sama (3239506)

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  67. Another good lesson. Both groups did well i thought.

    The Arduino presentation was interesting. I can't wait to start playing with one, i think I would get obsessed. We could use Arduinos to interface with the computer, and Flash. It sounds really good. Also, i heared that the user could program these little chips independently of the computer!. Once the user program them, they can disconnect them and as long as you give them a power supply they will continue to do exactly what you want them to do. That's cool!I’ve been much more interested in it.

    The glovepie group' did very well, too. It sounds good that with GlovePIE we can now play any game, or control any software or MIDI devices, using whatever controls we want. Such as gamepads, mice, keyboards, MIDI input devices,Wiimotes and of course, Virtual Reality gloves...

    In addition, i really liked the Madness session. It's very useful and i think i did got something out of it. We can see that it was organized and had some actually effort behind it .

    Also, it's great to hear people put up a pretty good and intelligent arguement agaisnt each other. Through seeing what everyone else was doing and hearing their great ideas, It really helped with my idea in game.

    That's all i thought. Thanks!

    Jiajing Zhang (s3213125)

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  68. Ben Goodvach-DraffinJune 11, 2009 at 2:49 AM

    Madness, wow....harsh. Aside from a few fairly dumb comments a lot was given and taken. I like the idea but it doesn't give quite enough time in my opinion to allow enough to be said. People were yelling out advice that the person had said and the "yeller" just hadn't heard because they spoke so fast. Or the person presenting argued they were about to say it. Nice idea though and it worked well considering

    The Arduino is bit like the ultimate hacker tool. You can make a lot of things happen with it that you couldn't usually, however i think it seems slightly more geared towards the everyday non-warranty breaking user. The dude with his remote controlled vacuum cleaner had it going when he opened up the case of that and his wii. The arduino just seems a little clean. Nice demo though guys was nice to see that it actually worked and wasn't a fancy of floyd's.

    glovePIE, nice...but, i still want VR to really control things

    Ben Goodvach-Draffin
    3163806

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